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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323432
08/19/2024 10:45 PM
08/19/2024 10:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
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Posts: 875
Redmond, WA
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I watched this video and thought it was very measured and frank and I believe his motivation in alerting others to the pitfalls of learning about salvage after the fact. I thought his decision to give them the boat was a reasonable one given the situation. Probably would have been even better if he'd done it before shipping to FLA.
I don't know that I'm up on salvage law myself, but I'm sure it is a big risk especially if there is no insurance. I'm willing to bet when the insurance company pays the salvage bill it looks a little different. I've often read that you should throw the other boat your line when towing, not accept their tow line... no doubt there are bad surprises and pitfalls in these aged laws.
He did complain at one point that the insurance company sent someone out and they never looked at his boat but went out to look at the mooring balls.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323556
08/22/2024 07:59 AM
08/22/2024 07:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
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I'm thinking it would be a negligence clause.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323563
08/22/2024 09:19 AM
08/22/2024 09:19 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,712 Memphis, BVI, CT
RatmansWife
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Hypothetically, if you "squat" a mooring, with no idea what it was designed for or how it has been maintained, then how can you expect your insurance to pay when the mooring fails? That is one benefit of the BoatyBall moorings: they are inspected, maintained and insured. It would be much harder for your insurance to deny the claim.
The more interesting question is if you anchor. How would your insurance determine if you anchored properly. Would you be in a stronger position anchoring poorly than squatting a defective mooring?
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323619
08/23/2024 11:10 AM
08/23/2024 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,189
MIDiver
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Matt - I could be wrong but I think that boat is a total loss. And this was clearly gross negligence which CAN void claims. Collecting sizable resources from a charterer is unlikely and would happen (if it eventually did), years in the future. Has me questioning my sanity having a boat in charter, especially with all the crap you read on charger chat……..
Last edited by MIDiver; 08/23/2024 11:10 AM.
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: RatmansWife]
#323623
08/23/2024 12:04 PM
08/23/2024 12:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 322 Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails
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Posts: 322
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That is one benefit of the BoatyBall moorings: they are inspected, maintained and insured. It would be much harder for your insurance to deny the claim. That's a good point. Where do FCFS balls fall in this spectrum? I (the charterer) don't really know who owns them or maintains them or what they are rated for. They have somewhat of a standard marking but what does that convey really?
Last edited by tmsxmsails; 08/23/2024 12:04 PM.
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323628
08/23/2024 12:44 PM
08/23/2024 12:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
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Posts: 875
Redmond, WA
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There is no insurance or guarantee with any mooring. It is always a judgment call.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: MrEZgoin]
#323637
08/23/2024 07:03 PM
08/23/2024 07:03 PM
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 33 Earth. Occasionally above.
Skytrucker
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Posts: 33
Earth. Occasionally above.
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There is no insurance or guarantee with any mooring. It is always a judgment call. True. For sure. But Boaty ball advertising that theirs are on a scheduled maintenance program and only outfitted by one company would give a little extra in the “I acted prudently” And less in the “negligence”
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There’s nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323640
08/23/2024 07:19 PM
08/23/2024 07:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,712 Memphis, BVI, CT
RatmansWife
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Posts: 1,712
Memphis, BVI, CT
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Along the same lines, if your charter company provides a list or map of moorings, and you use one of those, then that would probably work in your favor. Of course if there's a red flag or some other warning, you would be expected to heed that.
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323642
08/23/2024 09:18 PM
08/23/2024 09:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
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Posts: 875
Redmond, WA
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Totally agree... the same basic good decisions that should be exercised to keep boat and crew safe will also be easier to defend if bad things do happen.
I just thought it was worth emphasizing that no-one is going to accept liability for your boat if their mooring fails.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: Skytrucker]
#323659
08/24/2024 11:15 AM
08/24/2024 11:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 322 Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails
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There is no insurance or guarantee with any mooring. It is always a judgment call. The question isn't whether the mooring owner will insure you, it's whether YOUR insurance will cover you when you are on someone's ball and it breaks. On one end, there's Joe-blow ball in front of some restaurant that you'd apparently be clearly risking your insurance coverage by taking and on the other, Boaty Balls that have at least some expectation of maintenance and safety. It doesn't sound like anyone knows what their insurance will cover and potentially totally arbitrary. Relying on your charter company listing mooring locations on sample itineraries as some sort of protection against denied insurance or deductible claims seems risky. As we've discussed elsewhere, The Moorings lists Anegada as a wonderful place to visit on your trip but red-lines (says you are not covered in) the anchorage. @GeorgeC1 - in 30 years you've never heard of a claim denial; can you describe some of the claims that you've heard about that were honored? I'm just curious about the scope of the claims. A broken bow pulpit from hitting the dock is one thing. A hole in the hull from hitting a reef is another.
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323662
08/24/2024 12:23 PM
08/24/2024 12:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
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Posts: 875
Redmond, WA
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There was an earlier comment that said BB moorings were "inspected, maintained and insured"... Hopefully two out of three but I wanted to point out that none of the moorings are insured.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Insurance and Salvage
[Re: tmsxmsails]
#323670
08/24/2024 04:58 PM
08/24/2024 04:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 875 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
Traveler
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Posts: 875
Redmond, WA
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Good point. Moor Seacure's reputation on the line is probably a major reason that we don't see far more mooring failures.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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