TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin All is not well with the owners on Orient Beach co

consessions: https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islands/54...QM6LuQ.facebook

Yes, something was posted about this earlier. Probably see alot of turnover of restaurants because of this and/or higher prices for their services ( which to be competitive I don't know if this is an option). Course for this area when someting doesn't seem to work out there is always a weenie roast.

SXM??? Wendell

So if I get this right, the original proprietors were never going to lose "their spot", but their rent sky rocketed, THEY have to rebuild the interiors and no thought was given to a proper layout? Kitchens aren't cheap, if proper water and sewer lines were run why is the parking and roads still a disaster, they would have been fixed with the construction. Each owner can't possibly fit their old kitchens into the new set up. Glad Orient isn't my beach of choice, haven't been since Elisa and the original Bikini Beach BS!!!

And the new restaurants will be starting about half way through high season.

W.

Did anyone really expect much of a different outcome?

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you....." sure rings a bell with me. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

"Concerns were raised about the disparities in the building codes that were quite evident at the site, but no one would give us an audience,” said one of the tenants. “It seems the St. Martiner has no voice. The parking lot is not finished, there are no lights, the kitchens are made out of wood with no drains and the deck of each restaurant needs to be covered"

No drains in the kitchen!!! Hope they have running water! Something seriously wrong with the planning of this site. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I'm reading the previous rent was 450 euros and now it's 2,500 euros!

Interesting that they also recite that building codes were not followed, and one does wonder what 3.8 million euros went for, as it seems like a lot of money for what there is there. As far as water is concerned, my understanding is that the tenants will have to pay to connect the water. I wonder what will happen at this point.

Hmmmm, I wonder what that does to the price of a burger? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

And supposedly the rents for the lolos in Grand Case are only 500 euros. Huge discrepancy..

I believe that the 2,500 Euro rent has been known for some time. However, since they are on yearly leases you would think the government could cut them a break for the first year to let them get started and assess business prospects. On the other hand, it is about 100 Euros per day, perhaps 4 or 5 meals? I don't run restaurants so I am just saying...

That is exactly what I was thinking.

Sadly, this is probably true in any language and in any country. I guess this will all eventually play out and it is totally out of any control of ours but it sure doesn't seem to be starting out well.

I think the announcement of what the rent was supposed to be was made around the end of November, but the proposed tenants had to make their applications a long time before it was announced what the rent was supposed to be. $2500 a month--every month--including August, September, October, when it is totally dead on island??? Recipe for a bankruptcy..

My take on this is that they probably want to discourage the original operators from coming back and so they set the rent at a price they knew they couldn't really afford. They had 80 other people apply to rent these buildings so they will move on to get other renters if and when the originals decide to pull out because of all the problems they are discussing regarding rent and construction. Time will tell how this scenario plays out. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

At those prices, I wonder if those other entrepreneurs will still be interested. The restaurant business is one of the hardest and most competitive businesses you can be involved in not to mention the demands it makes on you physically.

People are still cost conscious as can be seen by so many of the posts we both make and respond to are any indication.

Let me think about this - a twenty dollar burger and fries washed down with a ten dollar glass of wine - or - a sandwich brought in your cooler with a two dollar beer? I think those prices will at least promote the sale of beach coolers but it will take an awful lot for the small businesses to put those rents away for the low season, cover the daily overhead, the cost of goods and salaries for staff and when all that is handled, still have something left for themselves when all is said and done. Good luck with that.

And then there are all the other issues like the disparities between other rents held by the Collective just for starters. This just doesn't look too good no matter how you slice it. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

I fail to understand how they could have signed up for these Cases without knowing the price???

This is very fishy ... Sounds like a typical SXM swindle ...

They were required to apply for the AOT's without knowing what the cost was going to be. Whether it's a 'swindle' or not is open for discussion, but this is a lease contract with the Collectivite', and my understanding is that they have not actually signed the leases yet...

How could they have no drains. Gross

If they don't have drains no need for sewage so more cost cutting. Gross is correct. Higher rent? What a joke. there should be an accounting where the money went. Would love to see how many government officials benefited from this project???

Having been involved in public offerings in Europe, I am pretty sure that it is illegal to issue a call for interest without showing the price. Otherwise it could lead to unfair treatment and encourage corruption.

It would also be absolute nonsense to do it that way.

You must realize that then issuing such a Call, public authorities will demand that any reply must contain a firm commitment to pay the price of the lease and also comply with other important provisions. Therefore the price must have been part of the Call.

Maybe it’s not a swindle, but I'm pretty sure that the Daily Herald hasn't got it right. This time at least, they are not involving the French Gendarmes. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I wonder what the overhead is for the big operators on the beach. If the new places have to increase prices to those with the big lay outs so they can make ends meet, then I think they are doomed,

Not really. As long as they are competitive, which I think most are, they should do just fine charging the same as the larger beach establishments. Competition just makes you stonger is what was always preached in my business classes.

Scubaman
The big boys have more room to spread out on the beach, more room inside for gatherings and larger menus. Those plusses could hurt to small guy. I hope not but ...

It is not about competition it is about overhead. If your competition is paying $450 a month rent and you have to pay $2500 you have to make $2050 a month more ( net more) just to be even with your competition on rent. Or #24,600 a year more to stay even.




SXM??? Wendell

2,500 € / month for a restaurant rent is not unusual.

Business classes also teach you that supply and demand curves must meet. The higher the fixed overhead, the higher the turnover must be. Since there is a limited number of clients, the number of profitable Carbets will drop until it meets an equilibrium.

Who says the big places are only paying 450? 450 was the lolos price in grand case not the orient larger establishments.

Just guessing, but they're probably talking about floor drains in the kitchens. Surely there are drain lines for the sinks.

I have no idea what the "larger establishments" are paying but a former restaurant operator alluded to the FACT they were only paying 450 Euros/month before the new buildings.

“We cannot afford to pay the restaurant rent of 2,500 euros per month; it is very high,” said Leandra Carti from Chez Leandra. “That’s a big difference to the 450 euros we paid before."

Exactly, JD!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

I know that was in the article. I was commenting on what sxmwendell posted "If your competition is paying $450 a month rent".
I take that to mean the ones down or up the beach from the re development.
Not that big a deal to get worked up over but that's clarification if needed.

Who is worked up over it? I said I have no idea what they are paying and can only go by what was in the article. For all we know perhaps the places at different locations (bigger or smaller) may be paying way less. It could also depend on their location on the beach.

The purpose of keeping 80 m from high-tide free from building (although it is not its origin) is to prevent sewage going straight into the sea. I am confident that the COM equipped the Carbets with appropriate drains.

Just came from SXM and checked out Orient twice. The road is horrific--we left via the village to avoid the potholes. They are in a sorry state. I found the facilities that were being built to be very close to beach front with not a lot of shore line. Sadly, orient a place i've loved, has turned into something not as attractive as before. I feel sorry for the original tenants. . . crooked government.

Just read in one of the weekly papers here, more or less reliable, as all SXM papers.

It seems that Carbet Restaurants will have to pay €2,500.- per month and those who just sell goods €100.- (quite unbelievable). It seems that the main issues are late delivery and high rents during low or dead season.

Both points must have been covered in the call for interest issues by the COM.

Yes, the amount of the rent for the restaurants has been mentioned here numerous times. 2500 E is correct. You should apparently read here more often? The other number is not. The amounts for the rents for the restaurants and the shops has ben posted in several notes so far. I can't remember the number for the shops off the top of my head, but I think they range from something like 600 E to 400 E.

Looks like when the "wheel" makes the complete 360 and the original places can't compete, we will see them standing over their lolos in the parking lots of the new places selling ribs and chicken.

The tenants had a meeting with Gov't officials yesterday and the lease fees will be reviewed.

The Gov't also requested that the tenants submit income statements for the last full year to back up the excessive rent claims. (from Daily Herald article this AM)

I posted a separate thread and link to the article. Link

Reminds me of a scene from the movie Vacation when Chevy Chase asks the mechanic how much it cost for the car repairs and the mechanic laughs and says "How much you got?".
Chevy says "No really".
Mechanic repeats, Chevy ends up giving him all his cash and says "What does your sheriff think of your business practices?" and the mechanic flip out his sheriff badge.