TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Do I need a pin to use my chip equipped credit car

Totally confused about the new credit card chip and pin. Is it necessary to have a pin for the chip cards in SXM? I want to be able to use it as much as possible. Looking forward to our 15th yearly trip in March.
Dave

You need to use your pin on the French side with the chip and pin card. The Dutch side is still behind and using old machines, so chip and sign is mainly used there. You do need to know your pin on both sides of the island and not many places are still swiping the cards as they did years ago.

On the Dutch side it also depends on the amount that you spend. Above $50, they require a PIN.

French side is PIN only.

Bottom line is: without a PIN you credit card is almost useless.

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Between my wife and I there exists 8 distinct credit cards...no recurring balances but many cards...ALL have been converted to chip cards and ZERO are chip/PIN....all are chip/sig

Kinda half of what was needed....

I should note they have PIN's assigned to them but that is just for cash advances not routine transactions <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps a PIN is required for chip and PIN cards, but I had no issue using my chip and sign card on either side of the island a month ago.

Ditto!! Only time I need a pin is for cash advances

Not an issue at all in the USA but definitely an issue in Europe (France) where there are many transactions that will not accept a chip/sign card

This thread is giving me deja vu from a previous similar discussion

In my experience, Chip and Sign works everywhere with the exception of unattended terminals. I've used my Chip and Sign cards in Europe, SXM (both sides) and St Barth. I've only had a problem after hours at a gas station, but I understand that other unattended terminals (i.e. Train station ticketing machines) may be a problem too. I do have one Chip and Pin card.

I agree....as long as a user (in Europe) knows that that early AM trip back to the airport means no gas fill using the unmanned pumps. Once they are open there is no issue...

Same here. We used our Marriott Visa at several places on both sides of the island in October without a problem. Cashiers seemed to know that the card was not Chip and PIN and automatically printed a copy for my signature. No discussion was necessary.

We're here now, and have used our chip and sign card on both sides of the island without issue. We're always prepared to pay cash in case there's a problem, but haven't needed to yet.

I just got off the phone with Venture Card. I have a chip in my Venture Card, and the powers that be emphatically said that Venture card holders do not have nor need PIN numbers. Has anyone else heard this?

The US Banks have fought to NOT do anything to help credit card users because they felt the loss incurred was far less than the cost to implement the chip/pin. Then finally after many complaints they started sending out cards with chips.

However, they are NOT the same as those in Europe in that, US cards just have a chip and are shoved into the SAME machine that was used to swipe and you still have to sign.

In Europe you need to have a chip/pin card not a chip & sign. If SXM is accepting them then fine but not in France. Let's hope SXM continues to accept them.

It's getting difficult to guard yourself when crooks are stealing info from ATMs or one has to pay to use an ATM and now traveler's checks are not being accepted due to counterfeiting and the fact merchants have to wait up to 30 days to get compensated only to find they have counterfeits. No wonder they don't want to take them.

So stock up on money belts for your waist, your socks, your shoes to stash the bucks in case SXM decides to NOT take a CC unless it's Chip. Pin.

For the US Market, there are two types of cards with chips. Most banks are issuing Chip and Sign cards (which goes agaisn't what the rest of the world uses). A few banks are issuing Chip and Pin cards, which is the standard outside the US.

The reasoning with Chip and Sign cards is most of the fraud commited with credit/debit cards is card cloning where someone has received your card number and makes their own card with your card information. The fraud committed with actual lost cards is very small compared with cloned cards. So they see no reason to issue Chip and Pin cards. When Chip and Pin rolled out in Canada a few years ago, banks saw transaction volume drop because they could not remember the pin for their new card. The banks lost money when they happened and the US banks do not want a repeat of that here.

I look at some of the responses on this thread and wonder if the posters have ever actually tried to use a Chip-and-Sign card on either side of SXM or in Europe. Or if perhaps their experience isn't recent. I can't reconcile some posts with my personal experience.

Some US banks issue Chip-and-PIN cards. See http://creditcardforum.com/blog/chip-and-pin-credit-cards-usa/

If you look at some of the previous posts they said they are on island now or recently and have had no problems with chip and sign on either side.

I'll repeat: we are on the island now, and have used our chip and sign card on both sides of the island with no problems. That may not be true at every single establishment, but that's been our experience this past week.

As was mentioned in the previous similar thread I personally had no problem using chip/sign card in Paris or southern France (May and September) and in SXM last January. They did NOT work in any unmanned terminals (metro, gas stations, toll booths etc.) which should not be an issue in SXM. I even tried the Citi AA card which they guaranteed would work in Europe..gave me a PIN...had me use it once in the USA to activate it and...nada.

I will add that most but not all of my transactions were with cash obtained from an ATM which eliminates the issue.

I was in Montreal, Canada in October. All restaurants have portable chip card readers. I just tell the waiter it has no chip as he/she hands me the reader to put in my "PIN" . They push a button on the reader and it prints a singable receipt -no problem in any place. Since at least 80% of tourism in SXM is American, i doubt SXM is different than Canada.

Canada did a soft change at both ends. We have chip/pin cards, but also still have the magnetic strip as well. And merchants have machines that can take the chip/pin cards and can swipe the old style cards.

My understanding it didn't happen that way and people from Europe had problems in the US when their cards had no meg strip and Americans had problems in Europe with cards without a chip.

Based on the experience of people of the Island now, it sounds like SXM did a mostly soft conversion, too.

SXMScubaman, GaKaye, and Boucharda, I am in agreement with all three of you. Some posts by others give different information.

To further clarify, we used a chip and sign card today at Anse Marcel Beach, where a friend had told us we would need to have a pin. It worked like a charm without the pin. Apparently the terminals can recognize the difference between chip/pin cards and chip/sign cards.

Plenty of confusing and conflcting info being offered here. Thanks to those that have actually used the cards on SXM and were able to provide their experience as to what was required (GaKaye <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />)

EMV (chip) card transactions are way more complex that you might think. There are 12 steps and step 6 is CVM (cardholder verification method) there are 8 options including signature and PIN (among others). The card basically tells the terminal what verification method to use so if your card is programmed as chip and PIN it will ask for a PIN but if it is programmed as chip and signature it will ask for a signature. That is the source of the confusion...different cards will require different actions to complete a transaction. It is not the merchants choice but the card issuer.

I have one card that is both PIN and signature so it will be interesting to see how that goes...

While I am not questioning your information, there must be something on the merchant side as well. I have a chip/pin card, but at some merchants, here in Canada and other places, the card has to be swiped and a signature is required. It varies by merchant rather than card.

Some additional information on our experience in October may help clarify (or further confuse) the discussion. Where our card was used the merchants (including Grand Marche, Simple market, Petit Casino market, and a few others) had no reservation accepting it. However, several other places (including Bikini Beach, and two of the outdoor cafes a few doors down from Petit Casino) were cash only. Obviously establishments are handling the chip card issue differently.
Also, where our card was accepted the cashier took the card and swiped it behind the counter so we did not insert it in the chip reader like we are doing now that we got back home.

The only thing the merchant controls is the capabilities of their card reader. Any or all of the 8 CVM's can be allowed by the card including no verification at all. It sends a list of what it will accept. Often, a chip and PIN card will allow backup verification methods including signature. The card issuer controls the list because they are the ones at risk but they also want to minimize inconvenience to their customers, hence the multiple options. When that approval code comes through the merchant is clean.

Every single car issuer determines what they will accept for verification and every single terminal maker bakes in different capabilities (within the limits of the specifications) so it is not at all surprising that we are running into lots of potential issues especially in SXM where the merchants were used to swipe and signature (Americans) and chip and PIN (Europeans) until last month when they started to get hit with chip and signature. It isn't any better in the U.S. where merchants are all over the map in support and are mostly still doing swipe and signature.

My guess is that you will see support for the chip functionality first in the jewelry and other high end shops since the merchants are now liable for fraud loss if they don't use the chip technology (at least they are in the U.S.).

Thanks for the clarification. So I am guessing what we as end users see as differences from merchant to merchant are really differences from terminal to terminal based on the terminal's capability and the allowed verification methods from the card issuer.