TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin I stand with the people on the French Side.

I know the other post has been closed down....but personaly I am in agreement with the People of St. Martin. Barbara and Bob have been villainized here for their feelings on what happened Wednesday. THEY live there.....they are St. Martin.....and who are we, some that may spend a couple of days or weeks there, to tell them they are wrong??? We are visitors to THEIR island...the place they love and call home.

The protest yesterday sure garnered a lot of attention...and rightfully so. Who in their right minds would run a protest when it didn't get the most bang for the buck. So, some cruisers and tourists may have been inconvenienced...so what!!! Would i have liked it...probably not, but as one poster said, we would get over it.

I can't say I totally know what the protest was about...but obviously it was something that the RESIDENTS felt would impact THEIR home in a very negative way...government taking properties.....taking businesses....etc. These people had and demonstrated THEIR right to a demonstration...and obviously it worked.

In my opinion, if people (tourists) don't or didn't like what happened, then it would be their choice to return or not to return. BUsiness people knew in advance of this protest, and obvious went along with it. It is their livelihood. A day's worth of inconveniece, and loss of a day's income to some obviously were less than a permanent thing. Sometimes a more ''drastic'' approach is needed to get recognized. What i understand, the other approaches didn't work. Thankfully, the protests were held peacefully, and I didn't read any reports of any violence throughout the island during the ''takeover''.

Again, I want to stress that we are just visitors to the island, and do NOT have a say in their government, or how they choose to live their lives. Yes, tourism is the number one industry...but I truly doubt that ships will stop bringing passengers, most timeshare owners will bail out because of this, and people that may be planning to come for the first time cancel their plans on coming. Come on folks...it was just a few hours...not days, months or years... I do know that this long time visitor will NOT be deterred on visiting my ''second home'' but now may even appreciate it a bit more, knowing that something good came out of yesterday for the residents that do not have any other place to go. We sure wouldn't like to be told how to do things from any other country....I think the people of St. Martin, both sides, should NOT be told how WE think they should live. it's called R E S P E C T....a thing that many of the posters here fail to recognize and appreciate.

I am pretty sure that I am not alone with these feelings.
My two cents.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

EdB,

Although I call St. Martin my home I don't consider it "my" island. I have been here for many many years but still I am not a "local" Even though I am a legal resident, I don't get to vote in island affairs and consider myself a guest as well and am happy that I am welcome here as an outsider. We do have better information about island affairs because we are here and living the island life.

I appreciate your support and so do the people of St. Martin and Sint Maarten.

The other post has closed but there I read several comments against the lovely people of SXM due to the protest.

This made me wonder had the protest been by the people about the condition of Marigot Marina Royal, with homeless spoiling the atmosphere tourists loved, would these "tourists" have been more civil since they may have felt it served them.

Can anyone explain exactly what it was about, in the simplest terms?? I read the articles in the paper and still don't get it

thanks you EDB for this wonderful post. Believe me, we appreciate your support.
and trying to explain to others on this board is just simply a lost cause so I will no longer do that.

Kim, in answer you your question, it is very complicated. Let me start by saying that basically it is a situation of colonial rules and outdated laws still prevailing on the French side. it is years and years of frustration by local French st martiners.who have seen metropolitan french come in and basically try to take over everything.
The local french government seems to be hand in hand with the big boys and not representing the needs of the locals.
What sparked this recent protests was implementation of new zoning laws..
I don't pretend to understand all of the issues in these new zoning laws but I know it involves moving back of land and structures 80 meters from the seashore. This means people lose their land with no or very little compensation .
As an example, Pat at Le Galion that has been there for the last 35 years and it is a huge tourist spot on the island. four months ago, he was given notice to pack his bags and leave from the French government! The butterfly farm in Le Galion the same! . The word is that these facilities would then be taken over by government and their "big: investors"
Other properties owned for generations by old families are now being threatened too. government says they don't own the land but they can buy the land from the government if they want.... generations of families born and raised on the land, yearly taxes paid to the government..now they don't own it and have to buy it from government?


A friend of mine whose family is an old old french family. They own property on the French side and have been here for generations. He says this:

"Why are the roads being blocked on the French side, it is very simple, because the local population, just had ENOUGH of the below!
(PLU)
1. new zoning plan that they are trying to pass during the month of October, areas that should be able to develop in the future and being turned into Green Zones, meaning that you cannot even do Agriculture!
2. Same PLU, buildings allow in the new one that can be built up to four floors! Can you image this in Orient Bay and other beach front areas on the island?
3. Areas that should be able to build hotels or other tourists oriented projects, low cost housing are being built!
4. And much more issues, that are just not right for the island!
(Domain Land)
1. Land that has been claimed by the state, around the shore front areas! (+/- 80Meters inland from the sea)
2. People like my grandparents, built homes on that land, before this “law” ever went into effect and today we still do not own the land.
3. You cannot get a loan to restore or use the house as a guarantee to a bank to restore it or even buy or build something new, because you do not OWN the land.
4. The younger generation cannot get a loan from a bank. to start or expand a business, because they have no “guarantees” to give the bank.
5. We have been paying taxes every year on land which they claim is not ours, so if it is not ours, why do we pay taxes?
6. Old homes with beautiful architecture cannot be restored to it’s original beauty, because the families cannot get a loan, or that they are in a “succession” with other members of the family and if just ONE person in that family decides NOT to regulate the succession, it stays that way in French law!
If you were living on an island or anywhere in the world and OWN property that your grand parents have built over 200 years ago, have been paying taxes on that property every year and now the government tells you that you can "officially" own it, by buying it from them for 30 -55 euros per square meter depending on the location, what would you do? That is happening in Grand Case, Marigot, Sandy Ground, French Quarter and other areas on the island! The new zoning laws has been presented to the public during the month of October and certain areas, they are changing to zoning laws to be able to build up to 4 stories high and other areas "green zone", where you should be able to build! The island is being blocked, not only for our benefit, but also for you the tourist that come here and our future generations!"

so as you can see, the frustration on the part of the local people on the French side s VERY high.
I do not pretend to understand all the issues but this is the gist of it. I am sure there are some pros to the new zoning plan and I would assume compromises have to be worked out. But you cannot implement new laws by just stepping over and on the people without involving them in the process.

The agreement that was signed after the protests is an agreement to stop the implementation of these things, and discuss further with community councils and start a new public information process. But it took a massive road blockage to reach that agreement before government listened.
The people did not take to the streets frivolously or lightly.

I too am sure there are some pros for this toward future development. But those already there should be "grandfathered in". Especially those that have been there for generations. I.e.: Chez Pat and Butterfly Farm

Thank you EdB and especially Barbara, for your posts concerning the recent protests. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

TY both, Ed andBarbara, for your post and your clarification as to the 'why?' behind the activities on the French side over the past few days.

My only thought is its too bad the people of the Dutch side didn't take similar actions before so much of their side of the island fell to the over development that has happened In St. Maarten, with all of Cupecoy immediately coming to mind. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Barbara for that informative explanation of the reasons behind the action. It now makes sense and probably would have had more supporters and less "complaining" from those that frequent and rely on this board and care about the Island if it was announced here prior to the event taking place.

All I could figure out from the articles I could find was a "zoning issue" which minimizes it to be on the same level as the early October RN7 blockade because of poor fire protection and the August Marigot blockade because of opposition to a drainage contract that was handed out.

It is definitely a valid issue and MANY "complaints" here were the result of not being fully informed. Yes, we have no ball in this game but quite a few of us love the Island and appreciate being informed about all things good and bad and especially appreciate it if we are on Island and the action might affect us directly.

Thanks again and good luck...

Ed - your post was unusual in terms of the quality of the writing. Very well done. I'll give you an A+.

I agree..That was a wonderfully clear and complete explanation from Barbara. It definitely put everything into perspective.

Like boucharda I wish a clear, thorough explanation like this had been posted by someone on Thursday morning when this all started. I agree that it would have put a whole diferent tone to many of the early comments...including mine. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for this crystal clear explanation. You guys got my support since day 1.

All this reminds me of the old Robin Williams movie, Club Paradise

Coincidentally, yesterday in Chicago several hundred demonstrators waged a protest that also included roadblocks. They blocked streets around McCormick Place, the city’s main convention center. Approximately 60 people did get arrested for misdemeanor obstruction of traffic.

The difference? The conference going on at McCormick is an international gathering of police leadership. The demonstrators were demanding racial justice and protesting the way many police departments engage with communities of color. In contrast, the police in SXM were probably on the side of the protesters, and may have families that were personally affected by what the government was trying to do. Doesn’t surprise me a bit that no arrests were made in the SXM situation as they were in Chicago.

^^.....also I'll bring up that the unsanctioned protest (no permit) near Chicago could possibly have separated injured people from easily available medical care (hospital or ambulance) and that it should never be allowed. Typically civil disobedience arrests are a slap on the wrists....the ones that trap people in traffic for hours (again away from accessible medical care) such as the freeway shutdowns we saw across the country need to have stiff penalties. Lets not have some people's rights trample on other peoples rights.

Gendarmes are stationed here for 3 months and most do not have family or any ties to the island. That is another complaint of the local French side residents.

save your breath, Bob! A lot of people here don't want facts. They just want to believe their own inaccurate truths that they think prove their point.

On another note when the US govt was closed down (sequestering) about 2 years ago we met a lot of Europeans visiting National parks who could not get into camp site and had to scramble for lodging in hotels & motels. Local people even put these people up in their own homes.

Our friends who did this said none of these Europeans complained about being on vacation and not being able to get into places. At the hotel where we were staying we met some people from France. I apologized to them for the shutdown and they said it didn't bother them, that it was right to fight for things as they do in France.

Very different responses to what we're hearing here. Here we see posts with lack of respect for the people of a foreign country.

I guess you are reading different posts than I am then. I see no lack of respect here for locals--difference of opinion, for sure. I do see a lot of posts here by our members who are disdainful of the opinions of other MEMBERS.

Yes, I agree. a lot of disrespect on the part of some posters...not all, but some