TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands New Crew Introduction

Heading back to the BVI's in January for my fourth charter! Seems just like yesterday that I got pulled into this wonderful lifestyle. My previous three trips have been with my wife and kids, but this next one will be six guys. One of them is experienced and certified so we should be able to do all of the heavy lifting. But I'm getting everyone out on the water together in a month to cover a few of the basics with the newbies. I was coming up with a brief agenda of items that we should cover with them (not a full check-in list) and thought I would cheat by asking this great group for input! Again, trying to strike a balance between covering the basics but not scaring them off. What else would you cover with your new crew on an 6-hour introduction? Thanks!

At the dock
Demonstrate proper cleat hitch
Spring lines, bow lines, stern lines
Placement of fenders (round turn & 2 half hitches; clove hitches)
Strategy for approaching/leaving slips
Dock pilings; releasing bowlines under other lines

Down Below
Proper use of heads
Use of galley solenoid
Generator; battery switches, panel
Head/shower sumps
Bilge alarm and manual pump
VHF / cell phone usage
PFD's

Under Sail
Man-overboard drills
Reefing sails

Anchor/Mooring
Communication / signals
Approaching and leaving a mooring field
Windlass operations and safety
Securing dinghy and painter

Catching (or not) a mooring ball can ruin a marriage...
Wonder how it will do on a friendship...
be easy on them CAPT!

I can see a boat hook, a pick up truck, and a ball in the new sailors future <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> Remember drive backwards so you cannot see and they have to shout the directions.

my enthusiasm level would drop very low for that trip if I had to do that orientation for 6 hours. I don't know what type of boat you are chartering or orienting people on, but that can make a big difference.

I have guests help me all the time, instruction takes minutes and it is pieced out during the week when you figure out who are the helpers and who are the sit and watch.

If they don't know each other just gather for a relaxing sail, you will learn and observe from their behavior who to instruct.

We did 10 in July, with two experienced and two familiar, and were able to get by with a quick briefing at the dock on crew safety and man overboard followed by briefings as we went. I checked all ropes/knots and the Admiral checked mine, as always.

Lesson learned: show rather than tell, repetition teaches. One of our mnemonics is "Leverick=Low" for setting fenders for the fuel dock. Putting a newbie on helm is safer than having them handle sails/winches.

Fun trip!

Cheers, RickG

Oh sorry if I made it seem like it was going to be a 6 hour intense training! Nope just some guys messing around on the water on a Sunday. But wanted to get them prepared to work together on a few things before we head out of Hodges Creek. Thanks!

I think you are going to find comments about your check list from posters here on both ends of the spectrum.

I like it but I'm also obsessive about this sort of thing. My view is that the less experienced you are with the BVI waters the more pre-planning, like the stuff you want to do with your crew, you'll want to do.

I do agree with TomB that things like head familiarization may be best left to the day you board. However, the seamanship skills you list are worth going over so you can get some level of confidence with the 6 of you in handling them well.

Something I learned from a charter in July where I had 3 newbies and hired a licensed Captain to provide another set of hands and local knowledge was that don't be ashamed to take command, review important seamanship routines and drill your crew.

Russell was great in getting me to think through every aspect of planning the days route to include chart study and anchorage entry over a cup off coffee still at the anchorage or dock, things to do to ready the boat to leave the dock or anchorage and giving clear commands to your crew that include specific instruction on how to, for example, raise the main, unfurl the jib, tack and jibe.

He pointed out that newbies don't really know how and in what order to let of dock lines, take wraps on a winch and set it up to self tail. You can't just say lets go or let's launch the head sail ...... they won't know how to do that on the specific boat you're on until you teach them.

Also, before docking or picking up a ball, for example, give clear instructions on what you are going to do and what you want specific crew to do before you do it. Go slow and let the steps for a procedure unfold that way. You, as Captain, will have to notice potential problems before they happen and direct correction. Lets say, you notice the guy on the bow has the bow line that's going to be run through the mooring ball rigged over the stanchion/life lines instead of under it. You have to see that BEFORE it is a problem and correct it.

There will be some that catch on really quickly and some that won't - the watchers and doers - and, yeah, no yelling. A good Captain NEVER raises his voice. He's so far ahead of the game he doesn't have to.

I agree with Kneafseym, if you go into too much detail I think some eyes may glaze over for the first timers. Sounds like you'll have one real first mate, he will be your go to guy and can help instruct grabbing mooring balls and setting up dock lines and fenders once in the islands. Safety on the boat would be my focus, demonstrating a MOB is a good idea so they know what to expect in an emergency. Understanding hazards is important and their extra eyes can help you, lines in the water, where not to be when tacking, securing everything before heading out, alerting of boat traffic, always making sure the Skipper is properly hydrated! Go out and have a great team building day and consider keeping it casual, have them raise/lower the sails, explain points of sail so they understand why you can't always sail straight to your destination, have them assume the helm, they'll be hooked! What boat are you chartering?

some of my guests just want to relax, I don't expect them to handle dock lines, unless they want to learn. Sometimes guests jump right in and want to learn everything and some just want another beer.

Trim it to 20 min...and drink some beer...its a vacation...they will learn fast and figure it out quick when on the boat.

^^^This! Way too much detail for many people. Teach those that want to learn as you go along. You run the risk of coming off as a control freak by having too much information dumped. You have one experienced crew mate, the two of you can handle all aspects of the boat handling. The message I would relay to your newbie crew is that safety of the crew and boat are the primary concerns. You want to remember the cruise for the right reasons.

On head usage, make sure they are aware of using holding tank while at anchorage and emptying it once away from the shore. Watched a Bavaria grab a mooring ball in Little Harbour in Feb while a crew member flushed the still open valved head down below. Sewage everywhere and a very vocal and pissed skipper chewing out his crew/guests.

I might suggest everyone be aware of some basics non-sailing duties -- everybody expected to help keep the boat clean, prepare a meal (or two). Sometimes this works well when done in teams. This is a sailing trip not a cruise.

Is everybody getting their own cabin or are you sharing bunks? Is someone expected to sleep in the main salon? Make sure everyone is aware of this as the cabins can be small.

No yelling at the newbies. I'm no flogging captain but, by God, I've sailed with some!! Did my basic with my wife and 2 others 16 years ago and the instructor yelled at my wife on day 3. Led to the coldest four days on record in the BVIs. To her credit, the instructor did not find the anchor tied to his ankle and slipping while on the foredeck. It led to a complete lack of interest for her in sailing after that.

Some of the newbies will be more interested in others. Don't get pissed at them if they are more interested in getting to the next bar then tightening the sheets to get an extra quarter knot of speed.

If there are two of you that can manage most of the serious stuff, the others will join in at their own pace. Let them guide themselves into how much they want to participate.

cs

Regarding the head, best way to avoid issues is to open it once you are under way as far from land as possible (consider the current as well) and then close it prior to heading into an anchorage.

We typically open it, let it drain (just give it a minute or so) and then close it, so its never left open.

CanadianSailor is right on about it not being a cruise - that is important. There's no one to clean up except those on board!

And expectations are also important - We had one couple come with us one time and the husband had been before, but his wife hadn't. Her expectations were a little different from reality. I think she expected to sleep with the hatches open and hear the waves..etc, but it was October with periodic showers and it was hot so we ran the A/C at night. So setting expectations is always important. She did have a fun time, it was only marred by the sea lice that gave her an awful rash making it very uncomfortable for her - they spent their last couple of nights at Scrub Island and went home a day early because of it.

Thanks for the feedback. I've pulled out a couple gems. I may have misrepresented my intent as it seems some folks think I'm running them through a rigid training for 6 hours and flogging them. Just getting 6 x 40-something year old guys together on the water to drink beer, grill, and sail. But wanted to point out some basics to them to get them ready for the trip. Again, thanks!

You forgot the most important lesson. The Captain is always right and orders from the captain must be obeyed. We had a terrible experience with one guest who thought he knew better than the captain...he has never been invited back. If there is a real disagreement, this is best sorted out over drinks once the boat is safely tied up.

regarding the head again, I honestly do not believe it is your guests responsibility to open or close the holding tanks. This should be the function of the Captain. There is still a charter company, not to be named, that does not encourage the use of holding tanks.

On holding tanks, we had the three youngest kids responsible for holding tanks while we were out with our crew of 10. They ran through the boat like winged monkeys and emptied the holding tanks whenever we were offshore. That led to a funny lesson learned about opening the tanks while downwind.

I had to "remind" crew a few times about not being between the boat and anything else. Its scary to see crew try to fend off a downwind piling even though there is a well placed fender between their hand and the piling. A quick yank and a visual demonstration corrected that young crew fast.

Cheers, RickG

Last Moorings 3900 I chartered in 2013 had the head valves zip tied to the open position, diverting them from the holding tanks. Unless things have changed, there are no restrictions (unfortunately) for open heads into any harbor. It was appauling to me because on the coast of the U.S. dumping holding tanks are only allowed 3 mi (5km) offshore.

Where was that charter from? The base in Tortola is pretty specific on holding tank use.
G

I've never seen a moorings boat with the holding tanks zip tied.

Evan - they aren't guests.. they are crew <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> I think as long as the person opening/closing knows what to do, that it shouldn't be a problem having someone else do it. Just make sure everyone knows where it is..

The charter we just did with Beerman, he thought the port side had two tanks.. each time he was opening and closing two vales. No harm done as the valve that was NOT a holding tank was just another exhaust for the generator that went under the hull - I noticed it as I was coming back to the boat one time in the dinghy with the generator running and I saw no water coming out.. Thought we had an issue, but I eventually figured it out.

TrackingAg,

I think you've got "the right stuff" and the crew is lucky to have you as their skipper.

A little about how to handle MOB (especially if it's the captain) and after that I'd make sure no one thinks they can stop a big boat by getting any part of their body between it and a dock. Also watch out for lines and fingers in winches or cleats, anything around a moving anchor chain, or releasing a cam cleat before depowering the forces with a few wraps on the winch. Make sure they know that your name is on the deposit and you have the experience, if you find yourself in a high stress situation make sure they know you are in command and that is not a good time to come to a consensus.

Other than that I'd do some setting of expectations and some thinking about crew dynamics - sometimes that can be a challenge.

I've learned a lot from Captain Ron like making sure they know to watch out for the gorillas when walking in the jungle.

That was the Tortolla base. There was never any instruction about the holding tank use. Again I was appauled. Hopefully that has changed since 2013.

As a former certified sailing instructor and frequent charter/weekender/racer and Coastie with a mix of newbie crew I would recommend covering safety until they can repeat it back. Nothing else really matters.

When I have been able to prep the crew in advance, I have found that calling it a sailing orientation cruise keeps it light and lowers expectations and anxiety.

After that, I give them an overview demonstration of what I'm doing and tell them that I will teach them as much or as little about boating/sailing/seamanship as they are desiring to learn, but there is no obligation to do so. They will learn best by doing.

That being said, my stink boat buddy and I had a 4 hour discussion on nothing but mainsail shape, trim and changing gears. The other sailing newbies left after the first 10 minutes.

Don't have a sail plan that counts on the newbies for anything and be prepared for you and your experienced crew to do or direct absolutely everything. Both of you should be on deck at all times while underway.

Let the newbies know that they are not being relied upon to do anything related to the sailing in order to remove some stress. If they do want to participate, talk them through it before, have them repeat it back, and then talk them through it during the action.

Just my .02

Also my understanding of the BVI waste system, from previous TTOL posts, is that any pump out just goes back into the ocean anyway. Unless they have changed that too, hopefully.

We've been chartering out of Tortola since 2009. Never seen that before. We've always been told to use the holding tanks and asked if they are empty on return. I wonder if that boat was brand new and that was done for the trip to the BVI? That's about the right timing for the 3900's I think. Was there no mention of the holding tanks during the briefing? Did you raise any questions about it?

I tend to prioritize the safety items and head use, then look for "teachable moments" throughout the week for the rest. Some people have a lot more teachable moments than others.

As far as holding tanks, I believe the rule in the BVI is you must be at least 1/2 mile from shore to dump the tanks. I've never found it particularly difficult to comply.

Matt, anyone I invite on my boat is a guest, if they decide they want to crew, great. Of course, we expect them to help cook and clean. I will teach anything they want to learn. Safety briefing definitely starts the trip.

Just make sure they are crew when checking in and out of customs

Unfortunately, I know of 4 charter companies that do not allow you to use the holding tanks.

This info would definitely help me decide which charter companies to use in the future! I don't want to break the rules here. Can the company names be posted, or if not, can you PM me?

Personally, I think it should be posted. Maybe it would get the companies to change their policy. I've heard of one, but since it isn't first hand, I'm not going to post it.

What I can tell you is that moorings and sunsail promote the use of holding tanks and have working holding tanks.

The Moorings was actually the first company to have their entire fleet holding tank equipped. They tend to have very easy one valve systems. I was curious on the base for that reason. Usually if tank valves are zip tied it's in the closed position. Some places including the US require that when sailing inshore.
G

Dream Yacht Charters had no problems with me using the holding tanks on the last two trips.

Holding tank or not the BVI "waste treatment" system pumps raw sewage into the ocean.

I think before we go nutz about this, someone with some environmental engineering skills, if there is anyone, and local knowledge should speak up.

First, let me say, I'm not in favor of overboard discharge of black water accept under very strict circumstances. I do know that yachts, in general, are not the major source of water pollution. Politically they are an easy target but the reality is, as I understand it, yachtsman are a very small contributor, if they even contribute at all, to E. Coli pollution of the world's waters. There are a ton of other water pollutants but E. Coli and all the Coliform species attendant to a direct discharge from a head or from holding tanks aboard a yacht are the one's we're discussing if I understand this thread.

Of course, there might be exceptions to this sweeping statement and I acknowledge that. For example, the discharge of Black Water in slow moving harbors where a lot of yachts might be moored or docked is clearly unacceptable.

I have heard that the BVI with the high water circulation attendant to the environs of the Drake Channel are not particularly susceptible to E. Coli pollution to the extent that the concentration gets high enough to pose a treat.

OTH, I don't know for sure if the BVI government is just being lazy about introducing environmental measures that should have been introduced. I'm pretty sure there is no significant restrictions to discharging Black Water and from what I understand, its just common sense ..... obviously, don't do it in a crowded anchorage; wait instead until you are a good ways away then have at it.

I'm also unaware of any pump out stations that don't just "recycle" the sewage right back in to the local sea water after, maybe, some treatment with chemicals but to what degree and under what regulations, I have no idea. Nor am I aware that land based sewage treatment is as Pvreg describes. I think its treated pretty thoroughly before it is discharged. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe someone else with local knowledge about BVI sewage treatment in general can enlighten us here.

Bottom line, this may a pretty complex problem worth worrying about or not worth worrying about. I'd like more information before we post a list of charter companies who may not encourage the use of Holding Tanks.

Perhaps the debate about the BVI marine head discharge regulations could be the topic of another thread. The 1/2 mile rule exists now. It seems reasonable to follow this rule while the debate goes on. While it may not be perfect, it's the best rule we have at the moment.

I don't see why we need any more info - its not about encouraging its use - its about preventing its use - as I understand it, there are some companies that keep the holding tanks locked open so everything direct flushes.

Not much to discuss here - either its a huge inconveinence for the charter guests as they have to go ashore to take care of business or they just do it on the boat and direct discharge - Gotta go at 2am - who's going to make the trip to shore? And there isn't even the option in all locations to do that.

Did a Moorings charter about a year ago. They were very specific about using the holding tanks (overboard valves closed) in harbors and opening the valves while underway. The exception was bringing the boat back to base. They had a monetary penalty for any valve closed when the boat was turned in. That way they knew the tanks were empty.
Lew