TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin ANY CLUB O NEWS?

I know I know if they wanted us to know, they would tell us and we have no right to know.

That said, with a lot of hope I hope somebody has reinvigorated an attempt to rebuild something Au naturelle on the property. Lumber prices are down so maybe the insurance dough goes further.

African style luxury Tent resort on concrete slabs with anchors. Pack it all up when storms approach

Come on Club Oers, get kicking

Nobody wants to insure them against 3rd party claims.

They closed because of the court case against them because of the guy who had a heart attack there.

Thanks for chiming in. Interesting. Insurance obtainability. That could be a plausible excuse.

So, did the owners get a payment and have walked away?

Who still holds title, however questionable, to the underlying sand?

If no one wants to rebuild, why would they not want to sell to a major hotel chain. Don’t want that, but if I owned a share I might.

That is why I suggested easily dismantled African Safari Tents fastened to concrete pads. Not much to insure there. They could build a communal shower bathroom area like a campground. Run electric to the tents for AC, Microwave, Minifridge.

Perch offer their fare til dark and folks would fend for themselves in the village. Croissant deliver in the morning. Maybe open papagayo bar tent.

Or RV trailers……with a septic pump guy.

Glamping.

TJ, love the glamping idea. Not for everyone but we sure would do it!

I highly doubt the reason is the inability to obtain liability insurance. The cost and availability of property insurance, however, could be an issue. Obtaining property insurance for coastal property has been difficult and costly for the last 3-5 years and especially difficult in areas with little to no elevation which makes them highly susceptible to storm surge and/or flooding. The norm has been that premiums have increased 2 to 3 times what they were 5 years ago and when you add in the increased values and cost of construction due to inflation, the cost insure coastal property has made a lot of development difficult to justify.

TJ Trippe,

You've started lots of speculation with no real facts. If you look on the Club Orient website you will find some of the information you are asking about. It hasn't been updated for a couple of years but the basic information, including information about rebuilding efforts and the historical timeline are all there.

1. Basically Club Orient is like a condominium association where individuals own their own units as well as a share of the common areas. This is a common sort of arrangement in many parts of the world, certainly Canada where I am from and also our neighbors, the United States. One difference is that in France copropriétés are rarely dissolved. Even if all the owners agreed to sell it (which is unlikely with the large group of owners), there would still be legal hurdles to selling. Many owners have already said that they would not sell so having a major hotel chain buy it is basically a non-starter.

2. Even assuming that all the owners agreed to sell, the other reason a large hotel chain (or any size, actually) would not buy it is because the French Risk Prevention Plan has designated the area a red zone. The rules will allow anything that was there prior to Irma to be rebuilt (as long as it is built to the current safety standards) but nothing else can be built on the property. The rules would allow the sort of hotel- condominium arrangement that Club Orient had (refer to the website for details) but would not allow private residences so anything that the copropriété rebuilds will necessarily have a hotel-like component, the same as before Irma.

3. Regarding the sort of temporary housing (African Safari Tents) you are suggesting. Why would anyone chose to stay in this sort of glamping style when they can easily go a little way down the beach and have the full comforts of a hotel or chalet they can rent?

4. Connecting utilities (water, sewage, electrical) have a lot of rules and regulations even in France.

5. As mentioned in point 1, each of the units are owned by individuals (technically about 1/3 are owned by SCI which is owned, in turn, by the owners, essentially). None of the owners bought in to have a tent or camper. They all bought buildings, tiny houses. Many spent a large amount of money bringing their units up to a standard that they preferred. I can't see any of them saying, sure, let's go camping now that we're in our 70s or 80s. Yes, many of the owners are old because that's who had the money to buy into a place that they would also let others share (owners never made any money on the rental and anyone who owned a chalet paid more than they got even if they never used it and rented it out all the time). It was a lifestyle they were buying into and that didn't involve tents or trailers.

You will see that I comment a lot on this forum, trying to provide correct information as far as it is known. People have started sending me notes when they see something out of line, in the hopes that I will respond. I was going to leave the African Tent comment alone but it got a little traction so now I have jumped in.

It appears that you have not followed any of the news or information that has been posted previously. I'm not even aware of any court case against Club Orient for what, wrongful death? I admit that I am not aware of all court cases Club Orient may be involved in but I've never heard of this one before.

Club Orient was destroyed by Hurricane Irma and has not been rebuilt. That's why it closed.

Thanks for your reasonable guess. Insurance is always available if you are willing to pay the price but I'm pretty sure that the ability to obtain insurance of any kind is far away from anything that is currently delaying the rebuilding.

Many nudists belong to nudists camps throughout the USA so they are used to such an environment to practice their past time. Club O was Glamping with a nice restaurant.

As for who pays big money for a tent, check out the rates people pay to stay in these tents.

https://www.mombo.co.uk/rates/

And they cant even be naked.

So, I dont care if it’s the wooden studio chalet or a fancy tent with a door and ac and no bug bites. I want to wake up and walk to my yellow umbrella after eating a chocolate croissant and washing it down with a Carib. As for those in their 70s and 80s, they are running out of time on that better solution.

The world of insurance is getting crazy after hurricanes, fires, inflation and condo collapses.

I’m sure somebody will ensure the truck that hauls the tents and furniture to high ground when the next Irma comes.

Keep rates low too.

"Why would anyone chose to stay in this sort of glamping style when they can easily go a little way down the beach and have the full comforts of a hotel or chalet they can rent?"
Here's why. Most folks like us know how much more relaxing it is to spend a vacation sans clothing, not having to dress and hop in a car after the beach. e.g. walk to the shower, rinse off the beach sand and lotion, settle down for a drink in front of the place, all while naked. The charm of Club Orient. Nothing like it. Loved it for 15 years. We'd go glamping for that, for sure. And some of those things are pretty fancy!

Amen. Build something and they will come

Ok, I guess my glib reply about why anyone would choose to stay in a tent when they could stay in a comfortable hotel or villa/chalet sparked the expected "I would!".

The issue is much more complicated than you appear to want to consider. You are using apples to oranges comparisons.

The website you referenced is for a luxury safari trip in Africa. Since I've never done this, I assume it is the sort of "once in a lifetime" trip people take, especially according to my friends who have had the good fortune and fortune to take them. Not the sort of place the people will usually go annually or even more often (like we did at Club Orient).

Nudist camps throughout the USA generally are not in the middle of large metropolitan areas. They are generally a little more remote (not all, but I'd venture most). Club Orient is a common beach, backing on a nature reserve, on a very small island that relies on tourist business and has frequent public unrest.

Also, you say both that people will pay big money for it and also suggested it would keep rates low. Seems a bit contradictory.

Club Orient was considered expensive previously and the rates that were charged for the chalets did not even compensate the owners for their condo fees, even if they NEVER STAYED and their place was FULLY RENTED. They bought, not for the income but for the ability to enjoy the lifestyle and to have their own place instead of always being renters and getting what was available.

Tents are not an option for the following reasons (among others).

• Security. I have heard from friends who have been on these African Safari trips that there are tons of people taking care of you and you aren't in a tent in a populated area (that's the point). I see a lot of posts from people going to SXM who are worried about their personal safety, let alone the safety of their belongings. I know that the bill for Security at the former Club Orient was a significant budget item and with tents it would probably be prohibitive.
• The people who own units at Club Orient want to have an actual building, not a tent. (Ask any owners you know, like I have, to see if this generally holds true). Do you know of any place on the island that has tents for accommodation? I don't but I never looked for anything beyond Club Orient or a place in Orient Village.
• While I haven't checked specifically about using tents, I'm pretty sure that the building department in Saint Martin would not allow this. Additionally, the PPRN I mentioned previously has pretty strict standards and rules about what can be built on the property.

As a final point, it's good to see that even 7.5y later, people still want Club Orient to return to be a place with accommodation. That's good news because prior to Irma many people were preferring to stay elsewhere and schlepp everything in every day because the rates were too high and the accommodations were not nice enough. The hotel operation was struggling in the off-season to fill the rooms and owners were told they had to upgrade their units to attract guests (and also to stay away in high seasons so that their nice units could be rented).

The people who own at club orient unfortunately are constipated by something. The seemingly un-appreciated second class guests who paid the bills aren’t entitled to some clues of the constipation.

And stirring the pot, yep, that is exactly the point here. At the going rate Elon Musk will have a nudist resort on Mars before Club O is reopened.

With today’s temperature on Mars reported to be -60C, I am not booking any trip to a nudist resort on Mars. I’ll wait for Club O to reopen in any shape.

Thanks for acknowledging my "reasonable guess" but I wasn't attempting to explain why Cllub O hasn't rebuilt. My point was that it certainly wasn't the availability of liability insurance.

As for a WAG on when or if Club O will ever be rebuilt, my guess is that some or all of the current owners will have to pass before that happens. Actually, it suits me fine just as it is and if the dilapidated buildings were cleaned out , it would be a bit of a bonus.