TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Gus chairs and drinks back at Baie Rouge

Illegal is.illegal........... it's not like it's a new rule.

So true. People need to get over it. Good while it lasted but laws are laws.

Correct and correct. Some will complain when laws are not enforced and others will complain when they are enforced.

Aint that the truth.

If the government wants to enforce the law, it should get its collective heads out of the sand. Go after violent criminals, protect the property of its populace from predators, and offer economic opportunity and development for individuals. Maybe then we wouldn't have the "laws are laws" debates. Last I checked, in a democracy people have the right to question and challenge laws they deem unfair. Unless the island became a dictatorship while I wasn't looking, keep challenging unfair government practices. Go Team Gus!

Go Team Gus! Public beaches, regardless of any agreements made, and with that the ability of private businesses to service the beaches not blocked by a small group of residents that want a private beach. Illegal is allowing for a private beach.

Its not the illegal use of a beach by beach goers, its operating a business concession without the proper license or permits issued by the government.

I live in Sarasota County and we have similar problems with homeowners on the beach. These multi million dollar plus homeowners don't want us trashy folk on "their" beach. The way the laws of ownership are written make it private property up to a specific point, which for ease of enforcement, that has been deemed the mean water line. Basically it says that if the sand is "hard" it is public but if the sand is "soft" it's private.

Now we have the few homeowners that are just plain stupid but would call the sheriff's office to get trespasser(s) off their property. Sometimes it would be a family or a couple that didn't want to be crowded on the public beach so they walked 100 yards down the beach and put down their towels. You can say that we should go after the "real" criminals, which I used to hear all the time when I would stop someone for a traffic violation, however the law is in the favor of the landowner because technically he or she owns up to the hard sand line. Ridiculous, yes but it's still their property.

As for setting up a business that's still yet another problem and if the land ownership is anything like what I just explained here in Sarasota then the person is utilizing private property to operate an illegal business. Taking aside the benefit of the business, the land owners still have the right to complain. We all would like to think that in paradise people are chill but the truth of the matter is that this is these people's homes.

I live on a now defunct golf course and I would be upset if someone came into my yard and started selling sandwiches and beverages. As a cop I never patrolled the beaches looking for people setting up towels on others' "property" but if they called us for enforcement we had no choice but to deal with it.

The beach is public. There are laws protecting the beach and requiring permits. No permit, you shouldn't be there. Why do so many of you promote breaking the law?

Totally agree.

Because they enjoyed the place and the person/people without regard to the local laws. Sad as that may be.

It is not about breaking the law, or ignoring the law. It is that a small local group is able to restrict what permits are allowed on public property. I am sure they are not the only group that restricts what happens on their stretch of beach but there is a flaw there. I will miss having Gus there although we did not go to that beach as much as we once did. It would be nice to have somebody there servicing the beach area, and I would like to see that allowed and would support his efforts to be able to do that.

Were there ever any legal permits applied for? If so were they denied, approved or never acted on? I have no idea but you did refer to "It is that a small local group is able to restrict what permits are allowed on public property."

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I disagree dear friend. The vendor was breaking the law. The surrounding property owners asked to have the law upheld and sorry but Hallelujah on the French side they actually enforce the law. Right or wrong, it's the law. So wish it was so on this side.

Just to give you folks and update- Gus is still there, he is renting out the chairs and umbrellas but you need to come early or you will get none... he makes drinks, but not the blended ones. No power, no water... basically, operates out of his cooolers under the umbrella. Charging now $20 for a set of two chairs and umbrella. He said that he does have a food and alcohol permit so he can sell it anywhere on a French side but he can not rebuild his bar. No permanent structures allowed.
I was happy to see him there, at least you can get some basic stuff. He mentioned that he is trying to set up a bbq grill and start cooking food.

Any bathroom facilities??

Just the big blue sea.

Go Gus!

Good for Gus!

Well here is another update: on Tuesday we went to Bai Ruge again, rented chairs and umbrella from Gus. The day was a bit windy, our umbrella didn’t work very well, was constantly bent over in a wrong way, lol! I saw a few more heavy duty umbrellas in a pile next to Gus’s stand and came to ask to get mine replaced.... to my huge surprise Gus asked me for another $10.00!!! I said “ Are you serious or is it a joke?” He was serious! I pointed out that we had the heavy duty umbrella before and NEVER had to pay more for it... I was really pizzed. I told him that there is no way I am going to pay more than $20 for a set! He ended up getting me a different umbrella but not the one that I wanted...
He doesn’t have many takers for his sets. Most locals bring their own stuff and I counted only 4 rented sets that day. If Gus wants to survive there- he needs to stop penny pinch people. That will create an unhappy customers for sure!
Instead of gouging people, he should’ve offered a cheaper rate for a set to people who arrive after 2-3 pm, maybe like $10.00. In that case all the locals who come in for a few last hours would rent for sure, but not for $20!
Ok, my rant is over...

What was his reasoning for charging more for a better umbrella?

Laughable! He said it’s bigger and cost more! And just a few days ago, when there were more chairs were set up, the price was the same!

Questionable business practice from someone that originally operated without the proper permits. Seems to be a pattern with Gus.

It's a shame there's apparently no "grandfather" clause that would cover him.

Well said, Deputy Dog. I lived on the beach in Broward County for 60 years, still have a condo on the ocean on Hutchinson Island. You're correct on the high water mark info. Unfortunately, too many people "borrow" hotel or condo or someone's personal facilities, chairs, pools, often leading to owners who have just "had it." Now if they wanted to borrow my stuff and kick in for the mortgage, taxes, hurricane insurance, etc., that might make a difference!

With no original permit how could he be grandfathered in? Squaters rites? Don't think so.

You all need to get a grip. Gus can charge whatever he wants, just as you can.
Don't like it? Don't pay it. Bring your own chair.
Or sit on your towel.
And don't compare your experiences "living on the coast" in US to anything outside of US.
Cheers
I

Over the years we have enjoyed Baie Rouge and even going to Gus's place. I believe in Live and let Live but also in Fair is Fair. The issue as I see it is not the Home Owners Assoc but really more a French Gov issue as neither of those beach restaurants had proper , plumbing, restrooms, water, lights, so no health permit or operating license. It just a safety for the consumer and Gov has that obligation to keep it safe. The French GOV shut them down after years and years of looking the other way and allowing it. They aren't just picking on Gus, they are trying to make if fair and safe for everyone. It is a public beach but the parking lot is Home Owner Assoc owned and the Sunday beach crowd of cars often poured onto private lots and local streets which created a traffic hazard. After years and years of what I would guess was FREE RENT sitting on that beach doing business, and I would guess no profit taxes paid, and no employee taxes paid etc so.... I'd say he is way ahead of his fellow business owners that plays by the gov rules and pays a fair share to support the Island. But somehow you have a few people that's always more entitled and more vocal because they are more local or just a good guy. In one way its kind of a lot to do about nothing but again their are rules for even Gus and the next Gus. I do like having the option of renting a chair etc and I truly wish him a lot of luck but after all the GOV went through to shut them down and clean up the beach which does look great now, I doubt they will allow it to get going again much longer without proper permits. But it is SXM so who knows.

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On a FB SXM page yesterday someone posted that the police came and took Gus's chairs and umbrellas and shut him down again. Can anyone confirm?

We are very good friends of Gus', I talked to him yesterday, yes the police did go to the beach and take all his stuff.....and left with it.

Foreversxm : Gus does have a permit to sell, No he doesn't have a permit to rebuild.....and the government will not give him a permit to rebuild on Baie Rouge. When he went to see about a building permit, they told him no, but agreed that he does have a permit to sell. So he basically set up an easy up type of shade and was selling drinks and renting chairs and umbrellas. Now they told him he can't do that there.

Violations can be "grandfathered" in some cases when the infraction is allowed/overlooked by officials for a period of time. Depends on the community, history, etc. Grandfathering doesn't always have to depend on a previously issued permit. Experience from 8 yr chair of P&Z and Bd of Adj. Did you mean "squatters rights" or were you referencing some arcane religious sect with "squaters rites"? Just a lighthearted jest!

There is a post on TripAdvisor stating that the Police raided Gus and confiscated all his chairs and umbrellas on Feb 22nd.

Here is in this thread, Islandcouple stated that they had talked to him personally and confirmed it, just two posts above yours.