TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Chez Raymond Beach Bar closed

https://www.sxminfo.fr/120240/19/08...ice-judiciaire-ce-dimanche-chez-raymond/

It's in French. Loosely translated thanks to Ursula:

Le restaurant "Chez Raymond" à Baie Rouge fermé pour exploitation illicite
Une opération a été menée hier soir (dimanche) pour procéder à la fermeture de l'établissement sur réquisition du parquet. L'enquête est en cours. L'exploitant et sa fille sont …See More
The restaurant "at Raymond" in red bay closed for illegal exploitation
An operation was conducted last night (Sunday) to close the establishment on requisition of the prosecutor's office. The investigation is under way. The operator and his daughter are being audition. " they occupy without right or title private property, where they have done work without building permits, in a non-building area according to the local pos and strong constraints of the PRN (exploitation so irrégularisable), without declaring the staff or paying for Charges and taxes corresponding to the turnover, and without license to sell alcohol ", indicates the prosecution.

But..... we love that place. I hope this gets straightened out!

In French: "S’il s’agit d’une opération de contrôle, le choix du dimanche sur notre ile sinistrée laisse dubitatif. C’est probablement l’effet de surprise voulu par le magistrat qui a ordonné cette opération. Il est vrai que cela a fait son plus bel effet, succès garanti pour le côté Friendly Island."

Roughly, in English: "Even for a police sweep, the choice of Sunday, considering our island homeland values, was a dubious choice. The magistrate who ordered the operation was probably hoping for the effect of a surprise raid. Surprise was indeed the effect, a success guaranteed by the fact that we are the Friendly Island."

I am confused. Is this not the same place he had pre Irma? Then why if he was restarting his business did they close him up? Geeez, let these people alone who have suffered enough since the monster hurricane that tore away their businesses, their homes and their dignity. Give them a break and let the little didley squat rules and regs of the so called government turn their head. They do it for the high officials, then now give the little guy a break!!!

Although I don't understand it totally, the French side has new building code regulations since the hurricane and if you want to rebuild what was destroyed by the hurricane, if it is within a certain amount of feet from the water, you have to get a building permit, even just to rebuild what was there before. I believe that is correct. So that part I understand. That's why places like Coco, etc., haven't been rebuilt yet on Orient. (Don't necessarily agree with their policy, but understand this in connection with that.) What I don't understand is the stuff about not having a business license. Unless a) he didn't have one before the storm or b) the Collectivite' has required everyone to get a new business license after the storm.

The restaurant at Baie Rouge hasn't always been called "Chez Raymond." When Anthony Bourdain visited and announced that this restaurant was "my favorite restaurant on earth," it was known as Gus' Bar and Grill. Here is a link to the video -- the segment starts at about 21:50, toward the end of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUS1cK7a4XI

Daily Herald article today (8/22/18):
https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islands/79791-chez-raymond-proprietor-summoned-to-court-in-nov

Two different and separate restaurants. Bourdain went to Gus's, but the two restaurants existed side by side prior to Irma.

Gus' Beach Bar was one of two on the beach for many years, it was just next door to Chez Raymond. Gus did not re-open after Irma.

I think that Gus and Raymond both have been there at Baie Rouge at least since the early 80's but I cannot really remember. I am certain they were both there when Bourdain visited Gus' sometime in early 2000s. In my memory, both Raymond and Gus have always been there. The Lowlands Association has wanted and tried very hard at times to get rid of them since the Association was formed in the 60's - they have always had a good legal argument for why Raymond and Gus have no legal right to be there. In mid-80s, Raymond and Gus (or their friends) tore down fencing which had existed, in order to better access their shacks. Post-Luis - in 1995 - they made further efforts to establish themselves and despite the Association at one point getting a court order to shut them down, they managed to get permits from the Commune to operate - the prefet at the time (and since) refused to act against them. The last big fight that I remember was in 2005, when the Association (with support from archeological authorities - because the parking lot is over a significant Taino historical site) placed large boulders to cut off access to parking lot - put up signs, etc. Depending on who you believe for the detail, there were various threats (including death threats) - contractors "persuaded" not to help the Association - stone throwing - and, at the end, Raymond and Gus were back in business. Their status was always a little shaky legally and the Association has always been in the background wanting to see an opportunity to get rid of them. I have no idea what is going on now behind the scenes, but it will be interesting to see if Chez Raymond and Gus' Beach Bar and Grill can survive post-Irma. The Association would very much like to have only some minor off-road parking and an access pathway (which they are legally committed to provide), as exists at Long and Plum. We will see.

Hmm. wonder who to pay license fee to.

Taraavo and Elaine,
Thanks for setting me straight.

Snorkeller,

More than willing to concede I could be mistaken but I’m thinking these establishments came into being more likely in the mid to late 80’s at the earliest. We used to go there with our daughters and/or friends who vacationed with us, and sometimes just the two of us, through ‘86 or ‘87, and the thing we really liked about this beautiful stretch of beach was that it was mostly undiscovered and unpopulated. It wasn’t at all unusual for us to pack a small cooler since there were no services at all at the time. We’d toss our towels down in the sand and enjoy a quiet day there. And then we learned the reason we could never find a spot to park the last few times we tried to spend a day at Baie Rouge was because a small concession had opened and it had become a popular spot.

We always wondered early on why some entrepreneurial Island type hadn’t opened a small concession there earlier and how much money they might make if they were willing to make the extra effort of navigating what then was but a path down to the beach. And voila - along came Gus and Raymond and the services they provided. And the rest was history.........

Can’t help but wonder if there isn’t some connected Island person who would like to be in that spot and evicting the existing businesses was the first step in taking it over. Jaded, I know, but the way things often happen in this place we all love.

Pat - You may be right about 80s and you guys were there before us, so I defer to your memory. I thought it was earlier, but maybe it was post-Luis - 1995 - when they tore down fencing and gate that Association had put in place and then really got more set up. I think that by time we would have seen beach in late 80s that they both were there in some kind of shacks, but I really cannot remember with any certainty. All I can say for sure is that I have no memory of Baie Rouge without both Raymond and Gus there in some form. Of course, more seasoned visitors probably have a better recollection of the times back then. I can state with certainty that the Association felt its legal rights were being violated as soon as any vendors started staking claim to that part of Baie Rouge and have remained severely annoyed at what was established at Baie Rouge ever since. 2005 was quite a big fight that I remember well.

I wasn’t aware of all that extra history between the property owners association and the businesses so thank you for that.

And it could well have been that back in our early days we only came for typically ten days to two weeks and maybe we hit that beach on their occasional off days since Mullet was almost our daily ritual with only the rare day on a different beach.

John and I started visiting the island in 73 and in ‘83 we started bringing our girls and later their friends and eventually their fiancés. We honestly didn’t think they’d enjoy the Island that much during our earliest trips given the fact of no television and difficulty of familiar foods earlier on, and I have to admit to not remembering a lot about those missing years as I recall a lot of trips not by where we went or what we did, but by who was with us and when.

What I do recall is being very blessed to have discovered this wonderful place early on in our lives and having had all these years to explore it. It is so sad to see the way development of the last fifteen years has changed so much of what we knew early on, Gus and Chez Raymond being but one more example of the many changes we’ve seen. Hopefully, they’ll be back.

Article in the daily herald today.

https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islan...z-raymond-eviction-from-baie-rouge-beach

The article said it was the Terre Basse Assoc that took the action but in the pic in the paper its police that's packing up everything plus it was law enforcement that kicked them out so to me it seems like it was Gov applying the same rules as the other French beaches. I like the idea of being able to get something to eat and rent a chair so I sure hope the can figure it out and operate legally and safely health wise.

Only concern my wife and I had on these beach bars is the sanitary considerations. Non of these has ever looked up to any health standards that most should expect. Especialy at Gus's or Raymond's. Could say the same at Rosies on mullet.

Damn. It’s a beach bar/restaurant on a beach in the Caribbean. What do you want We’ve been here for two weeks and have been coming for 20 years I’m pretty sure where ever you eat is not as sanitory as you think

And the lolo's in Grand Case.

And that's the problem. Not enough control over some of these places. I've experienced food poisioning before and unless you've had it you don't know what your talking about.

Correct.

We've been there as it's a beautiful beach. But never ate or drank there. Used our on towels with butts in sand, or walked the beach. My issue was the stair area and surrounds always smelled like urine.

Chez Raymond was my favorite beach place on the island for food and drinks. Over-the-top good. The worst meal of my entire life was at Gus. I'm sure it was very unusual, but I never went back.

We also ate at Raymond numerous times and never had any health problems. The only time I had a food poisoning was actually at the Italian restaurant in Maho that everybody was raving about...

another article in the daily Herald:

https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islands/80198-asl-refutes-mjp-accusations-over-baie-rouge-demolition