TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Dreams, Petit Casino, Yellow Sub

For those interested, I saw this posted on the Petit Casino FaceBook post:

SXM without Dreams? Sad.

Oh no. That is just heartbreaking

Obviously not good news
The comment no water water evac system for Orient Village I guess means no sewer system?, that will be a problem for the Village.

Can't begin to imagine

J&B

Very sad indeed. Thanksgiving at Dreams has been a tradition for us for the past several years. Bruno's places are always the very best. As sad as it is for us, I can't even imagine how the owners of these businesses, who have devoted their lives to them, must feel.

Wow. I cannot imagine how devastated Bruno and family are. He is such a hardworking person. SXM without Dreams??? Wow... Don't really understand the rest of the post. No water or no sewage system???

It sounded like the sewage system to me. Google translation isn't always the best.

He didn't mention his plans with La Playa. I wonder what will be done about rebuilding on Orient. I don't think there's any way to build something on the beach that will withstand a Cat5+ hurricane.

Eric thought that's what it meant too, sewage system. I wonder on Dreams, whether he decided since he would have to totally rebuild, whether he would look for a different location. LaPlaya, as far as I know, he still had a partner on, so that is not totally up to him, I guess. Just so sad..

Water evac is probably sewage. I would think Dreams would have been easier to rebuild than anything because of the location. What is the connection with Petit Casino and Yellow Sub? Did He own them
As well!

Yes, he owns both Petit Casino and Yellow Sub.

Kim, we were thinking the same about Dreams.

According to Jeff Berger's newsletter, there is supposedly some French law that says that restaurants cannot build closer than 50 paces (paces or feet? not sure) to the water. Restaurants have routinely ignored this law, but perhaps it will be enforced now. Apparently the law is not enforced if you have an AOT (something like a lease??) but I guess most places don't have one? It's very confusing to me.

Oh my, What heart wrenching news! SXM without Dreams? So unreal.

The 50 paces of the King - pas du roi - is an old concept of french law which means that the state has possession/control of 50 paces above the high water mark. In France generally, this was codified as 81.5 meters.

As I understand it, based in large part on conversations with Phillipe some years ago who developed some interest in issue - and who actually once had interest in studying to be a lawyer - in Saint Martin pre-1995 there was virtually zero enforcement of the concept and people freely built up to the high water mark or even over it.

Also, the pre-1995 government apparently sold its rights to this space when selling land - or at least signed agreements indicating that the domain land was being sold (such as most well known in Terre Basses and possibly for Club O).

Post 1995 (i.e., post-Luis), the Commune - which later became the Collectivitie, adopted the view that for purposes of Saint Martin, they generally would use 17 meters above high water mark, but many structures of course still were within that space.

The government issued AOTs (granting a concession - like a lease) to businesses to make their building in the area close to (and maybe over) the high water mark "legal." The issuing of AOTs has been "interesting."

What may happen now - as it happened post-Luis - is that the government will try to reestablish governmental control over the domain land - however that will be defined.

Thanks for the explanation. From my understanding, the "five stars" of Orient have AOT's?? And the 'new' restaurants in the rebuilt area do also?

This is so devastating for Bruno. I would think Dreams would have been the easier rebuild. Everything on Orient will be harder to get up and running because of so many other problems there. Did he lose the bungalows too or did his home and the bungalows and villa survive? Just surviving day to day after being wiped out like that must be a real challenge.

Elizabeth, I read somewhere that the bungalows sustained some damage, but were not totally destroyed. MJ and I were chatting about Dreams, and we also felt that it would be easier to repair. I guess there's something that we don't know or understand about the situation there.

Carol, as far as the AOTs are concerned, my understanding is that the Five Stars had them, but that the operators were leasing from the original owner of the AOT. Apparently that isn't allowed, which is what happened with Bikini. Again, just heresay; so take it all for what it's worth.

Yes, Five Stars were subleasing from holder of AOT. With Bikini, Elisa found that the AOT holder had let the AOT lapse, she filed for an AOT, should have received it, the prior holder somehow got ahead of her in line, and there was some of that interesting stuff that happens on the island. The Prefet supported the prior holder of the AOT, and Elisa basically was thrown off the beach. Elisa had some partial wins but basically could not keep the fight going and had to give up. (Although I am trying to give factual story, I am biased in favor of Elisa in the matter.)

Carol - given that the rebuilt beach bars/restaurants were directly leasing property from Collectivitie, I do not know if they have a separate AOT in their own name. Maybe it is just part of their lease agreement. What I would be curious to know is how their agreements provided for the complete destruction of the improvements. I certainly hope that one way or the other, there is money from somewhere to reimburse/indemnify the folks who entered into the agreements with the Collectivitie.

My thoughts are that maybe Bruno just wants to get one going first and the likely location would be orient. Better beach with more draw.

Makes sense. Petit casino , yellow sub and la playa very busy. Our two times to Dreams were tasty and peaceful, not nearly the crowd and probably corresponding cash flow.

I am not privy to any of Bruno's finances, but Dreams made a LOT of money. It could be that he decided not to rebuild at that location because the beach is not great there, but it was very busy, especially on the weekends..

Dreams was outstanding. We went there on a number of occasions and it was always very busy (this would be in January). I'm very sad to hear that it won't be rebuilt but maybe it will be resurrected at a different location! I went for the food and atmosphere not the beach.

Agreed, the beach was not the draw, but the food and atmosphere. I do hope Bruno starts it back up somewhere.

And I hope it's on Anse Marcel. That would be the best combination ever!

Spent some good times at Dreams. Last Feb "rented" one of the raised cabanas for the day and enjoyed a great meal and wine and beers. Looked forward to revisiting. But now ... alas!

We loved our meal at Dreams but had only gotten there once. We spent many days at LaPlaya in October of last year and a week at LaPlaya visiting daily this past April because we stayed at Bruno's Bungalows. It was so lovely spending the day on Orient without having to drive far and the wonderful lunches and BBQ dinner will sorely be missed. It had been six years since we had stayed at the Bungalows - still wonderfully kept and located. We hope Bruno will get his businesses up and running soon for himself and his staff and for his patrons. Petit Casino, Yellow Sub and Macaron were outstanding business and a welcome to Orient.

Dreams will be missed by many, but particularly by those of us who stay on that side of the island. It might not have had the best beach but it was usually doable and for those of us on that end of the island, it was an easy drive as opposed to going all the way to Ans de Peres (Friars) or the Ans Marcel Beach Club or even Orient Beach, and having to wend ones way through the Marigot traffic. Dreams wasn’t an everyday stop for us but it sure was a great place to enjoy a wonderful repast and a delightful day. It will definitely be missed.

Maybe Bruno will reconsider when he has a chance to get his other businesses settled and perhaps, as previously suggested, he might even find a better beach spot, too. Can you just imagine a place like Dreams with the beautiful furnishings and service along with the incredible food and libations and on this side of the island? Sounds like shear heaven to me..........<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Pat, Bruno probably wants to stay in French territory.

But it would be nice if there was space on Simpson Bay for him...wonder if Baie Rouge can have development?

Part of the charm about Dreams, not counting the great food, menu, furnishings and Bruno himself along with his always pleasant staff, was the ease in getting there and the more than adequate parking. I can’t think of any other area on the French side beyond the known and already developed (and hopefully to be redeveloped) areas that offer these last two options. And I’m sure you’re right - he probably does want to keep all his holdings limited to one set of governing powers and ordinances. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Exactly, Pat. Dreams became our go-to beach many days, especially when there were a lot of cruise ships in port. It was easy to get to, had plenty of parking, and of course, the elegance of every one of Bruno's establishments. Bruno has posted on Facebook that his lease there was cancelled; so he definitely won't be back in that same location, unless something changes.

I agree with you Carol, Dreams made a lot of money. We went there almost every day in February for the past 4 years and the restaurant was always packed for lunch. We would make reservations for lunch every morning or would have difficulty getting a table. This past February, we started going for dinner the nights they had music and again they were always crowded. We will miss Dreams so much...the thought of not going to Dreams when we return to SXM in 2019 is sooo difficult. I’m almost in denial thinking it’s not possible and we will be back on the beach relaxing and enjoying the music and food;-((((

Kaye is right he stated on Facebook that he lost his lease. The owner didn't want to renew. On another note during our say last March lots of changes/ upgrades were going on at LaPlaya so maybe he is going to do an upscale beach bar there.

He had upgraded. We stayed at Paradise Bungalows in April so went each day to hang out and eat.

Yes, La Playa was beginning to rival Dreams, both in amenities and menu. The difference for us is that Dreams is much closer to where we stay on the Dutch side, and didn't attract the cruise crowds.

So the landlord didn’t wish to renew his lease? But I read that leShore is rebuilding. Will check this out next week! Dreams was the perfect location for us as well!!

That's what Bruno posted on Facebook. I hadn't heard about Le Shore (is that the one next door to Dreams?). He had done a lot more there after our last visit in December.

I was wrong - it’s called leSand. Not leshore!!

Will be interested to hear if you find out anything else. Dreams is a huge loss. Great location for us, close to the Dutch side.

Dreams, was a beautiful place.....but the beach itself wasn't anything special. It wasn't a good beach to walk....and let's face it...very rocky!!! Bruno will probably be smart to start building back on Orient....may not be as private as Dreams...but the same concept...like he was doing...will go a long way. We stay on the dutch side also...but feel the half hour trip to Orient...or the other French beaches is worth the drive. ESPECIALLY after the causeway was built. I was never impressed with the beach area where Dreams, Le Sand, and Layla's was. found it very rocky....water choppy...and windy.