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Ok. Addressed before I'm sure but waitress at Dreams says service fee NOT included. She says Dutch side does include and they don't. Wanted 15%.
I was not in the mood to argue but any input appreciated. We are staying 100 yards away til Saturday .
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It's my understanding that the "service charge" is included on the French side unless explicitly noted on the menu.... For a bill around $100.00 I leave $10.00 if the service is good. If the waitress tried to guilt me into a 15% tip it's pretty likely she'd get much less.
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Everyone's favorite topic! As in mainland France, the menu includes the full price. The servers are paid full wages. Many French may leave a little extra. 5-10%
French waiters in the islands often ask for the full American style tip.
They've become accustomed to it and are not shy about asking for it. If they are "on the books" French employees, they already make a proper wage and are typically guaranteed insurance etc.
I leave 5-10% on both sides, and in St Barth
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I would suggest you send an e-mail to Bruno, the owner of Dreams, and he will inform you of the policy there.You will not get a true answer by asking the waitress.
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All I can say is I have been having lunch at Dreams and in other restaurants on the french side with locals french friends and they always leave at least a 10% tips ....So , so do I !
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On top of the 15 percent they already charge that's a pretty healthy tip.
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They probably don't put the 15% on the locals bill. Just the tourist because the locals know better.
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they don't add a 15 % on the bill !! And they don't have a menu for the locals and one for the tourists ! I don't understand what you are saying....I have many french friends who leave on the island and each time we have dinner or lunch together , they always leave a tip ...I think they know what they are doing...
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The menu price on the French side includes the service; tip is something different. Don't ask, or listen to, what the server may or may not tell you. We generally leave an additional few dollars tip if the service has been good. Neither service nor tip are ever added as a separate line item on the check, as you will often see on the Dutch side.
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extreme said:
they don't add a 15 % on the bill !! And they don't have a menu for the locals and one for the tourists ! I don't understand what you are saying....I have many french friends who leave on the island and each time we have dinner or lunch together , they always leave a tip ...I think they know what they are doing... I was responding to Motown's post. "On top of the 15 percent they already charge that's a pretty healthy tip."
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SXMScubaman said:extreme said:
they don't add a 15 % on the bill !! And they don't have a menu for the locals and one for the tourists ! I don't understand what you are saying....I have many french friends who leave on the island and each time we have dinner or lunch together , they always leave a tip ...I think they know what they are doing... I was responding to Motown's post. "On top of the 15 percent they already charge that's a pretty healthy tip." As has been discussed many times, on the French side the menu reflects a service charge built into the price of the item. I may be wrong but I took it that "MotownTim" was referring to the 15% already built into the menu price. " Already charge" and " They probably don't put the 15% on the locals bill." are two different things.
J.D.
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I did not interpret Motown's post the way you did. I interpreted it as it was an added 15% on the bill as it doesn't state on the menu 15% is included in the price. I guess it's all how we both read and interpreted it.
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Regardless of how you interpret Motown's post, Dreams does NOT add 15% to the menu prices for service charge.
Carol Hill
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Other than the now-departed Baywatch/Andy & Cheryl's place, I personally don't ever recall going to a restaurant on the French side and having the proprietor add a tip on the bill.
Carol Hill
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Me either. But I did have a waitress at old Bikini Beach run after me for not leaving a tip. I flipped her a five and told her to have a nice day.
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Ditto, two trips last year 90 percent on French side and usually all you get is a place to sign the check. A and C's did jack up the cost of a breakfast in paradise with their tips, whatever I guess. I don't like to be cheap and I don't like to be ripped off either.
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My head is spinning as I just went back and re-read posts regarding "Service non compris" on the (French side). If it is on the menu posted in front of the restaurant I will expect to leave a tip. If it is not I expect service is included as per French law. Not going to fall for the stamp or hand written on the bill...again. Regarding Dreams, Bruno is a TTOL sponsor and many here support his businesses, us included. I would think he would want to clarify so there aren't any hurt feelings. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
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seastar, you are not the only one who's head is spinning. I have been a member of TTOL for several years, and I think this is the most discussed topic of all. And I think the whole discussion is totally ridiculous. According to many posts, we spend anywhere from $4000 to $10000 to take this trip - depending on airfare, accommodations, restaurants, etc...and we seem to to be eaten up with whether we spend $5 on a tip/service charge/whatever, or $10. Really, what the hell difference does it make? We spend so much money on this trip - thankfully we seem to be able to afford it - then we go crazy over getting "ripped off" for a couple of bucks by people that are are simply trying to survive, and in my opinion, are a whole lot nicer than their counterparts in the good ole USofA (and maybe Canada, I don't know) That DEMAND a good tip whether or not they actually deserve it.
Sorry for the rant, but really, can't this space be used for something more enlightening?
Dan
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I don't feel it is about the money. If someone is trying to take advantage of another person's naivete I don't believe that is right. JMHO <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, Sumbeach.
I only wish I could have put it as well.
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Yes, the 15% service charge is already in the menu price. So if you pay a 10% tip on top of that you are paying a total of 26.5%. I'm like Georgia. I leave a couple extra bucks if the service is good.
Last edited by MotownTim; 01/26/2017 05:15 AM.
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islandgem said:
I would suggest you send an e-mail to Bruno, the owner of Dreams, and he will inform you of the policy there.You will not get a true answer by asking the waitress. I did email Bruno. No response. I also had a discussion with the owner of a restaurant in Gran Case. Salary of the weight person is built into the price of the food. They do not rely on the Tips except for exceptional service and out the option of the patron. There was a comment on the board expressing the opinion that the small cost of tiipping is minute compared to the cost of the entire trip. No disagreement here but I believe when the French attempt to take advantage of Americans it is not acceptable. In this case I confronted the waitress stating that the tip is included In the cost of the food.. As stated she said it was not him that you could not live without having 15% on the bill.
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Exactly. We were told by one of the owners of L'Estaminet (when it was still open of course) in no uncertain terms that tipping is not done on the French side, though a few extra dollars for great service is not uncommon.
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I completely agree that tips are a minor part of the entire cost of a trip, but for me it's not about the money in any way. We go to a couple of places on the Dutch side where we leave sizable tips (well over 25% in some cases) because we appreciate the welcome and the exceptional service we get from the folks there. What I don't appreciate is someone trying to take advantage of the supposed ignorance of an American. When one travels, it's incumbent upon them to know and understand the customs of the countries they visit. That applies to much more than just tipping. It's always a personal choice, so if you want to tip over and above what's already included in the menu price, that's certainly up to you. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
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I don't think there should be any difference between service charge and tip. You are tipping for the quality of service you are receiving. One restaurant said the service was to pay for all the incidentals (dishes etc.), which to me are the restaurants responsibility of running a business. We always tipped too much, until we learned and spent a lot of time in Italy where tips are pretty much the same as in France. Yes, it's a small amount compared to the cost of a vacation, but would you pay more for any purchase you make than the amount required? There is always that time when you really want to give more, but that should be your decision. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
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weeks5051 said:
Exactly. We were told by one of the owners of L'Estaminet (when it was still open of course) in no uncertain terms that tipping is not done on the French side, though a few extra dollars for great service is not uncommon. Same for us. Our story is we were naive and left tips beyond the bill until we ate at L'Estimenet and Carole actually said we were tipping too much that it was included in the bill. But I insisted on giving her $20 more. The end result was we never again in the years it was open had trouble getting a table at anytime, any evening even when full. But I learned from her tip included and that any extra is a "pour boîte " translated "for a drink".
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I understand whay you are saying, but we had the chance to share lunch and dinners with Carole in retaurants and she would always leave tips ....even on the french side...
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Has anyone tried to compare menu prices for standard items to see if they are 15% more on the French side?
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billy3 said:
Has anyone tried to compare menu prices for standard items to see if they are 15% more on the French side? Note sure what "standard items" might be but any restaurant if free to set their price as they see fit. Just like in the US, a burger could range for $5 to $15 or more depending on the restaurant, the quality, location, etc.
J.D.
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My policy and simple way I deal with it.
French side - Wait staff is paid a living wage, any tip is optional to me which 99% plus of the time I add a tip but rarely American sized.
Dutch side - I look at the bill. Anything over the amount of what I am paying for the food that is listed on the menu counts towards the tip. I completely understand why a business on the Dutch side would add a line item for tip/service as they have a mix of people from countries that do not tip by custom and people from countries that do. Key item in this - As long as they are honest and upfront with the way they do it.
Cheers!
I prefer the Isle seat
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Pretty much the same here and I seldom if ever ask. You are inviting a problem once you show doubt or question the situation.
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J.D.
I agree 100% as this is my approach as well.
Just out of curiosity how would you handle a business on the french side that hands you a bill (sometimes to Americans only) that is stamped service charge not included, although there is no mention of "service non compris" on the menu.(besides not going back there again). Would you just ignore it and do as you normally would, leave extra because of the stamp or talk to the management, or others..
We usually hardly carry any cash with us any way and always charge on CC. (Since they don't have any line or place for additionals on the french side)
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I would most likely leave a few $$ (5%) IF service was deserving. Otherwise I would move on. I have found asking anyone, unless you know them pretty well or you are recognized as a repeat customer, is only an invitation for more confusion or rhetoric to extort more $$. I didn't have anything to do with making French laws or customs so I feel it is best to follow what you know to be the norm.
One long gone French restaurant owner, Bruno (not the same owner of Dreams) who owned La Petite Auberge des Iles in Marigot, is the only one I have asked that has been 100% up front with me. I don't make it a habit of asking but after many repeated trips there and discussions with Bruno, he would shoot straight with you.
If service is above average at a Dutch side restaurant we often leave another 5% there, even with 15% added on. I have also found even asking on the Dutch side has pitfalls also. Some servers will imply the 15% is only a partial service charge as 3-5% of it goes for the Turn Over Tax or to the restaurant itself. It may or it may not but that is not my problem to deal with when there is an added 15% service charge.
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Realizing your question was directed to JD, I have experienced the exact scenario you described. We left what we ordinarily would, $5 for a $100+ check, and have not returned. I'm confident that the server is the one who wields that rubber stamp, and I was tempted to leave nothing; but felt like leaving $5 would let that server know that I understood the system.
Last edited by GaKaye; 01/27/2017 07:50 AM.
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ruralcarrier said:
I would most likely leave a few $$ (5%) IF service was deserving. Otherwise I would move on. I have found asking anyone, unless you know them pretty well or you are recognized as a repeat customer, is only an invitation for more confusion or rhetoric to extort more $$. I didn't have anything to do with making French laws or customs so I feel it is best to follow what you know to be the norm.
One long gone French restaurant owner, Bruno (not the same owner of Dreams) who owned La Petite Auberge des Iles in Marigot, is the only one I have asked that has been 100% up front with me. I don't make it a habit of asking but after many repeated trips there and discussions with Bruno, he would shoot straight with you.
If service is above average at a Dutch side restaurant we often leave another 5% there, even with 15% added on. I have also found even asking on the Dutch side has pitfalls also. Some servers will imply the 15% is only a partial service charge as 3-5% of it goes for the Turn Over Tax or to the restaurant itself. It may or it may not but that is not my problem to deal with when there is an added 15% service charge. So Bruno told you the tip was included in the price?? We use to spend the whole evening talking to him--what a pleasure it was to eat there. It usually was our first night and maybe one or two more visits during our stay. We do miss them. Funny thing is I'm sure we always tipped 20% plus--not being sure back then and just because they were wonderful people.
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As RonDon said: The tip on the French side is a "Pour Boire" A small cash gift enough for a drink.
What I don't understand is if you don't have cash and want to leave extra on your credit card, what are you supposed to do?
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No, he told me the SERVICE CHARGE was included in the menu price. Remember, tip and service charge are two different things on the French side. We would always round the bill up or leave another 5% or better.
I would often ask Bruno about the service charge if I had new people with me so they could see how it was supposed to be handled on the French side.
Bruno was a joy to talk to and put out a really decent meal for a very fair price. His wife was in the kitchen and the dog, Mic Mac, was often hanging around also.
J.D.
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Carib_Ian said:
What I don't understand is if you don't have cash and want to leave extra on your credit card, what are you supposed to do? You need to make sure you have enough cash for the pour boire. There is no place to leave it on the credit card ticket because the service is included in France. Makes perfect sense.
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It shouldn't be a huge amount, regardless. You literally don't carry ANY cash??
Carol Hill
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