TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands Tortola Runway Extension

They can extend the runway to 10,000 feet but if you can't shoot a instrument approach they will have a hard time getting scheduled airline traffic. My last trip down there was a two day period where no flights would have arrived due to drizzle and low ceilings.
G

So many details are still open and missing. But, at the end of the day. There is no 21st Century high end tourism future without daily direct jet access to more than one US Mainland East Coast hubs. If the airlines can get themselves in and out of Aspen in the winter. The airlines will find away to get jets in and out of the BVI.



The reality is the next generation of travelers are taking shorter trips and the current airline economics no longer support connecting flights. You either have direct service or you die a slow painful market death.

I have flown in and out of Aspen many times. The minimums are very high because of the terrain. Normally a standard ILS can proceed down to 200 feet above the runway altitude. At Aspen the minimum decent altitude is 2383 feet above the runway. That means the airfield has to be above normal VFR minimums to land. If it's not you go to Denver and the people are bussed up to Aspen. Bussing people from SJU will not be a option.
You also over look that a normal glidepath angle can be flown into the Aspen runway. That is not possible at EIS unless they change the runway orientation which has been discussed but is very expensive.
It's possible a curved approach using GPS could be constructed however I question if it can be done and meet the TERPS criteria if it has not already been done. It's not expensive since ground based equipment is not required.

"Bussing people from SJU will not be a option."


Or STT as the backup with some type of ferry charter using resources in place for the cruise ship passengers.....

To me the larger risk would be the plane or planes not ready at EIS for the outbound passengers. Over the years more than once poor weather cancelled the AA flights to and from EIS for the day. Just like when it happens in BOS, Chicago, PHL or so many places we survived until air travel returned to normal. The key is direct jet service to most of the large East Coasts MSA on most days of the year. Direct jet service is table stakes for the 21st Century hospitality markets.

TERPS criteria for a RNP approach would likely facilitate an approach into EIS.

I'd guess a RNP approach hasn't been implemented at this point because the existing fleet at EIS can't utilize RNP procedures. If you bring in A320/B737/B757 from mainland US there's a good chance those aircraft are equipped to fly RNP approaches.

The article doesn't mention how the cost will be underwritten. A $150 per passenger fee isn't going to pay the debt service on a $153 million bond package that will likely be junk rated.

Who and how the final cost will be paid is not something I would try to pin down. The rules do require the UK back in London to approve the debt and the plan to pay it back.

Here are some very rough numbers...


393,000 annual overnight visitors taxed or fee'd somewhere @$100 each per visit on average would produce nearly $40 Million in cash to service debts when the time comes to pay any debts. I paid that much in rental car taxes and fees in New Orleans last week. With nearly 400,000 annual overnight visitors there are many paths to paying for a half a billion in infrastructure projects.

If I was going to guess? A hotel and overnight guest set of fees will end up paying for the airport and other tourism infrastructure. In Europe and back in the UK those numbers are greater than 20 percent of the total amount paid to rents rooms and boats.

They would not be able to use STT as a backup due to the lack of gate and ramp space. Diverts have to go to SJU unless a fuel emergency.

The departure fees and/or an overnight visitors tax of $150 or more will be distasteful to many. When I travel for business the fees and surcharges aren't any concern to me, but when traveling on vacation I notice the fees, taxes and other surcharges. Doesn't mean I won't travel when these fees are associated with my destination but it does give me pause and perhaps a little cynicism about the fees.

Very interesting read.Chris.... albeit a bit,scary....

"""Without the extension to the runway, new initiatives like our health tourism, the new BVI International Arbitration Centre and attracting new investors in tourism and financial services cannot succeed in providing additional revenue, jobs and business opportunities. Tourism can only be competitive if tourists can access the BVI easily. It is currently very inconvenient and expensive to visit the BVI,” he said."""

What,the heck,does,Orlamdo mean by "HEALTH. Tourism???"
.....maybe there is a job in my future?

Storm Jib
Here is my take on fees.
$20/person exit fee
10% villa rental fee so take a $5000/week villa for 4 persons=
$500 fee/4=$125
So at this point the visitor is being taxed at $150/person
I just don't see how gov/t can add another $100/person. I understand your point about needing the runway, but the runway needs to be usable for mainline jets and they must be interested in coming to the BVI.
I am not sure this is all going to work out. Seems to me that flying into STT with a high speed ferry to the BVI would be a better solution and much cheaper. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I reasonably expect they will finance this through the overnight head tax for boats that was previously brought up and dismissed. That is a large audience to spread it over.

What really waves flags for me is the Chinese connection. They are not the wonderful partners some think they are. They have made many unpleasant inroads throughout the islands. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/6/bahamas-resistance-massive-chinese-resort.html And this is just a random Google search article, plenty to choose from.

This particular article involves the entity that the BVI has chosen. Scenario fits like a glove. http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2...als-5915475969/

And that resort still isn't completed.

That company has a history of greasing palms:
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2...als-5915475969/

The BVI already has approximately $140 million in outstanding public debt. Among other things the bond underwriters and rating agencies will look at hard is the BVIs past construction debacles (Peebles Hospital), the reputation of the contractor, the declining financial service industry, and the likelihood the project will be completed on budget and on time. If this project gets funded and moves forward it has the possibility of torpedoing the BVI economy if all of the rosy projections are proven wrong.

The powers that be on both islands do not want the tourist riding ferries between the two island state/nations. Even if the BVI were to come around on this. The folks on St. Thomas want no part of it. As others have posted. STT is full and St. Thomas has no interest in becoming or further growing into the industrial airport and bus station for the BVI.

Please consider this. What would your villa rent for in the market and how many days of rents could you reach with daily direct jet service from the US East Coast? That is the driver. The same or even fewer visitors each year spending more money per day at least ten months out of the year. Long term grandparent or daddy rentals with the kids coming and going on their schedule. Medical tourism will be a growing market where the flights and housing make it practical and enjoyable. I agree the outright raising of any fee is distasteful. The best option is to increase the daily visitor spend and the number of visitor days across the 12 months while collecting the same 10 or so percent of each dollar and soon to be every single dollar spent. I suspect the BVI will be paying the airlines to fly the routes and if anyone is billed a transit fee it will be the non belongers bypassing EIS and using the ferries.

http://www.bougainvilleaclinic.com/index.php

With the growth in high deductible plans and other changes in healthcare many will be traveling and paying cash for elective procedures. Others are already traveling to resort like locations for annual physicals. The Greenbrier is a US venue making a market out of the new demands on the high end.

http://legacy.greenbrier.com/greenbrier-health/executive-health/the-experience.aspx

Got it....Canadian here....universal health care ...pros and cons for sure.
Health tourism???? Seems like an odd term

...not wanting to start a crazy debate just being pensive and thinking perhaps I can put my health care background in Public Health to work someday!!!! Of course selling jewelry with Anouk would work too

Rest assured "health tourism" is a very real thing. In 2015 health tourism was greater than a $50B business. NYC and places like the Cleveland Clinic do very large sums from cash paying patients. Many of those patients are from Canada and other universal healthcare postal codes. Some travel to get the service they want when they want it. Others travel to save money. Dentists in Mexico cost much, much, less. Others travel for privacy. Some just want to go somewhere nice and simply relax when they are focused on something related to their health. It is a major industry that is expected to double past the $100B mark in the near term. Whether great doctors or cheap doctors will set up at least part time shop in the BVI? I do not have a crystal ball. No direct daily jet service to the US. Forget the health tourism business.

Wow....naive girl I guess.......by the way my laugh lines are staying

Health tourism already ruined one of the most beautiful spots on Grand Cayman.

Before medical tourism
http://img.geocaching.com/cache/33463e60-f25e-4117-b48a-bf094a370321.jpg
http://www.grandcaymansunrise.com/images/blowhole.jpg

After medical tourism, this scenic spot now has a 4 lane road, and whose land side of the road now includes a 2nd hospital that GC does NOT need (30 minutes from the main town), and plans for apartment buildings.
https://www.healthcitycaymanislands.com/patient-visitor/international/medical-travel/

I had not visited GC in a few years (preferring to spend time on the small, mostly undeveloped sister island, Cayman Brac). But I visited last year and was so astonished, I cried..and of course, forgot to take pictures.

And this development is mostly not for the little guys. GC already has the highest standard of living of any Caribbean nation..and most locals were vehemently against it (just like they are against the new hotel St James Point). This type of development was purely a monetary land grab to line the pockets of developers and politicians.

After seeing this destruction, I am likely never to return to Grand Cayman..which is why, last year, I visited the USVI (St John) for the first time and loved it. And, wanting even less development than Cruz Bay, I am now planning a trip to the BVIs (Virgin Gorda, I hope)...to get away from this development.

Please think twice about rooting for development that can bring a vast influx of resources to islands already struggling with basic infrastructure....Because direct flights from any major US city could be the beginning of ruination...where what you love most about your island will be gobbled up forever. And our beloved, mostly unspoiled islands, turn into something akin to a mini Fort Lauderdale (at least for me, they have).

"Because direct flights from any major US city could be the beginning of ruination" Storm Jib in 4,3,2.......

Is that the sound of our ice melting or a pasting??

On Tortola the new hospital structure is already built.



So no worries other than money there. Most medical tourism in the Carribean takes place in smaller private clinic like settings.

I could cut and paste from McKinsey & Company, Booz Allen, and many others. Without daily direct jet service from the east coast of the US. The BVI cannot hold onto what they have with little hope for the future. The current airlift across all the VI does not meet the demands of the next generation of visitors. Just read the hundreds of posts on TTOl. How do I get from X to Tortola or Virgin Gorda. Magic Kevin can only be the savior of so many each day. To sustain the economy the BVI must continue to attract more than 300,000 "discerning" visitors each year. A working jetport is table stakes.

If we want "300,000 discerning visitors" we need to cut back the cruise ships and get a decent , reliable, comfortable ferry service. This is not brain surgery..the cruise ships have driven away thousands of folks who came to discover" Nature's Little Secrets". Yes the cab drivers and chair renters have made $$$, while very one else has lost out..somebody, PLEASE< PLEASE, read Glenn Ashmore's ferry study to see how everyone can benefit..Dr Smith..ARE YOU LISTENING??????? You read the study, you complimented the author..perhaps if you had paid him a $100,000 "consultant's fee" you might have taken notice..Rant over..

We visited Oil Nut Bay on a day trip > while there, the James Bond girls picked us up in a golf cart and drove us from the ferry to the "owner sales slide show". After the presentation, our group voted 7 to 1 to pass on any of the 1.2 million dollar building lots (I kinda liked the James Bond girls). I almost purchased one of the 5-10 million dollar properties, but couldn't I find my check book. Since then, we receive regular emails. The folks at Oil Nut Bay are currently claiming the runway extension is a "done deal!" Interestingly enough, when we didn't make a purchase, the golf car ride back to the ferry dock didn't include any of the James Bond girls.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I had a friend who knows more about TERPS criteria for building approaches then I do by far. He did not think they can build a GPS or GPS/RNP approach without a runway realignment. I suspect the powers to be also know that or they would not have been looking at a realignment in the first place. SailJib may be correct on the need for a runway but it's all irrelevant if the airlines will not fly scheduled service there absent a instrument approach.

You are correct, George. As is, it is not possible to create an RNP approach without removing some mountain top from the east end of Tortola. Any westward extension of the approach end of 07 is going to require significant modification of Tortola to fit the final segment requirement.

Can't they just get someone to copy and paste the mountain top somewhere else?? Maybe some Photoshop? Blather,blather,etc.

The new plateau will make the most stunning golf course in th caribbean.

Well, they did take off part of the mountain on STT a few decades ago didn't they? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

But I'm not advocating that for EIS. NON STOPS won't happen until there are Large hotel resorts on the scale of SJU, STT, MBJ, SXM, destinations.

It is a matter of chicken and the egg. Resorts have to come first, then NON Stops. No "If you build it, they will come"

Not true at all. With over 300,000 overnight visitors a year the BVI can more than support daily non stop flights from BOs, JFK, EWR, and likely DC or Atlanta. The current BVI overnight visitors numbers are in the same range as Bermuda and many other markets with direct jet service. I have never heard any plan for "large" resort hotels. Tortola lacks the infrastructure for that. All the plans are for the same number of visitors or even less spending more money per day with a season that last 10 months or more. More Villas, larger estates... maybe. Big box hotels NO.