TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Personal opinion of the ''new'' Orient Beach

I can't imagine anyone being nervy enough to bring their own wine into a restaurants serving area, but quite honestly, if I pay to rent chairs and an umbrella in the sand, I see nothing wrong with bringing my own drinks. And by the same token, if chairs are covered by the cost of drinks or food, I can't imagine being ballsy enough to bring my own libations. Just MHO!!

We spend some of our time at Mary's Boon, Dreams, El Zafiro and Friars Bay Beach Cafe and all provide free beach furnishings with the understanding meals and drinks will be purchased and I wouldn't dream of bringing anything in.

But people are all different and we did see a family of five or six people arrive at Karakters with a cooler a few years back. They bought a bucket of beer and enjoyed it and then discussed leaving their belongings to hold the chairs and going to SSB&G for lunch and to watch the plains come and go. Jorritt was furious and picked up all their belongings and gave the chairs away to new guests. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when they returned.......I'm betting it wasn't very pretty. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Goes on all the time. It's what is called a corkage charge. At home we bring a bottle of wine to restaurants and pay them to serve it to us. There are even some restaurants that wave the corkage fee to encourage customers to come to their restaurant as a marketing tool.
I once paid the 25 Euro corkage to have Mario's serve a special bottle of wine I brought with me from the states. They had no problem with it and the corkage price was even listed on the menu.

The vendors on Orient do not own the rights to the beach. It's a public beach. Bring your own chair, bring your own umbrella, bring your own cooler, and set up right next to them, or right in front of them. Tell 'em to call the Gendarmes if they don't like it.

However, if you want to rent one of their chairs, then perhaps you're entering into an Our Chair, Our Rules contract.

Right! So people bringing coolers should pay a cooler charge!

We spend our time on the beach at Club O. We pay the weekly umbrella/chair fee which comes with parking at CO. Much safer than parking near Pedro's. We buy drinks from Willy or Kenny and also bring our own cooler so that we can have a variety of beverages. We eat at Sun Clubber, Le String, Aloha, the Perch, Papagayo and Kakao. It works for us for $120 for 7 days for the umbrellas and chair. No free beer etc, but bringing our own makes it easy and fun. 14 days and counting.

I have to laugh at some of the comparisons. NOBODY GIVES FREE CHAIRS...the restaurants mentioned including palm beach, karakter, dreams etc. may give the appearance of Free chairs...but look at the prices paid for the food and drinks compared to some of the non free chair places. Can one get away at karakter, palm beach or dreams for under 100 bucks a day? Pay for chairs at the other places, and add in food there...I bet the dollars spent at the free places will still be almost double...if not even more. Nothing in life is free...the price is always built in somehow. Like with anything...you always get what you pay for. As THE WHO eloquently sang in the 70s..."we don't get fooled again"

Didn't say that. Your missing the point as I was responding to a BYOwine to a restaurant that is a common accepted practice at many restaurants that allow and charge a corkage. No mention in my post about paying for a cooler unless you want to spin it that way.

This is not accurate. The Collectivitie grants concessions to sections of beach. Why don't you try what you suggest and see what happens?

Granted, when you are sitting on a restaurant's patio you don't bring your own drinks---but sitting on a public beach in front of a restaurant who does not own that beach is definitely not the same thing at all.

Well said

pat, scubaman:
Your remarks about bringing your own bottle of wine to a restaurant reminded me that at one time in Utah that was the only way you could get it with your meal. Your waiter went through the normal presentation ritual the same as if you bought off of their wine list. It always seemed nuts to me to go through all the motions even though you knew everything about the wine before you got there. Also, I always wondered what they would do if after tasting the ritual sip you said, "That is the worst wine I've ever tasted. Take it back." Never had the guts to do it.

My take is it is the same if your are sitting in or renting their chairs

If I want to rent a chair and they say I can't bring a cooler I respect that and move on to another vendor that will.

That last is hysterically funny...... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

No, not really. Not historically in SXM, for the vast majority of places. For those that are the exception and make that rule, I don't patronize them. Are you seriously saying that you shouldn't take your own drinks and/or snacks on the beach at Mullet??

WEe bring coolers to Mullet, Pinel and Orient. Never been asked not to even at Pinel.

Mullet doesn't have an actual restaurant with formal dinnerware, flush toilets or showers and an actual building. Big difference. So no I'm not saying you shouldn't take your picnic to Mullet. Big difference in going to Mullet or going to Kontiki or Anse Marcel or Dreams or elZafiro

The whole issue here is what the vendor will allow you to bring if you are renting chairs from them. If they say no, that's the way it is. Just go down to another vendor that wants your money more. Pretty simple.

Wow, hard for me to say it, but I totally agree with you. Pretty easy.. If you provide free chairs, I have no problem, I will not bring a cooler, etc. If I have to pay for chairs, and you won't let me bring a cooler, see ya!!

May be there is hope for us. Not going to the bank yet. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/circle.gif" alt="" />

Actually it is much the same thing legally when the beach restaurant has the concession to place chairs on the beach in front of the restaurant.

Pretty friggin funny Carol! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />
Us too!
BobandJeana

Stop trying to steal my thunder, everyone knows that I am the most classless person here.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

We've been home for a week after spending three weeks at Orient beach. It was our 12th year to go to our favorite place. My opinion is it is not as much fun as it was before the change. We spent the first three days as Sun beach clubbed and enjoyed lunch there. Lunch for two was about $60 plus chairs and drinks, about $100 per day. On the fourth day they asked, "are you going to eat here if not I will not rent chairs to you". I don't know where that came from but he continued to say "I've been managing sun beach for 5 years and it has always been that way". We had always gotten chairs at Orange Fever and had the freedom to have our meals at Orange fever, Ethnic, Chez Leandra, Andy and Cheryl's and Sun Beach. I did take a cooler to Orange fever because I like to have a lot of ice in my drinks and my margaritas were better than theirs but always tipped heavy to make up for it. We spent the last two and a half weeks at Le String and had a good time. They were very nice and had great food with a good variety. I feel the atmosphere isn't nearly as relaxed (sand gravity) because of the extra pressure the vendors are facing. Nine months out of work and higher rent has taken its toll. It has always been a given but a return next year is a maybe for us.

If sunclubber keeps that attitude up he won't last long. To many other places with better customer skills to go to on that beach.

Viva la Dutch side

It seems that the smaller places are now charging the same for their chairs as the more spacious areas further north on the beach (which I completely understand with the increased rent). When we go to Orient, we spend our day at Kakao, where we usually spend around $100 for lunch (which includes a bottle of wine), and $20 for chairs. We've never been asked whether we're going to have lunch there, although we always do. So for about $20 more we can have more space and pleasant service. That's a no-brainer in my book.

Yes. The smaller places that chose to open under the Collectivite's current lease arrangement are caught between a rock and a hard place.

On our recent trip, I spoke to 3 of the 4 owners of the places that have opened and 1 of the owners of the places that haven't chosen to sign the agreements.

Their view of the situation is absolutely, completely unprintable here. In fact I haven't even told Jan about some of the comments (which means that I'm probably in trouble when she reads this post.)

I don't see at all how this business model is going to succeed. If the owners do business the way they used to they will go under in a hurry. If they do business in such a way as to actually make money (Heaven forbid) they will completely alienate their current customer base and may not be able to attract a new one.

Since we are an avid member of their current customer base, we aren't very happy now either.

I have no idea where this is going, but just remember when you get irritated with the way that a business owner is tackling this problem (even if they are tackling it badly, which some are), not a single one of the current owners was in favor of what has come to pass.

Ted

Which leads me to believe that Cheryl made the right choice in packing up all the license plates. I will miss all of Andy's specialties. He was spared the grief of losing what all those restaurant owners lost in the last 8 months.

Yes, sadly, I had the same thought.

My understanding is that she had absolutely no choice to be able to get a place in the new buildings, as they never had a direct lease in their names. They were subleasing from someone else, and the terms of the new leases with the Collectivite' were that there were to be no subleases.

carol....i heard while down there a couple of weeks ago..the building at the end closest to pedros was ''reserved'' for her....but after all the delays, she decided it was time to give it all up. i think the idea of having to build roofs, the bar...and everything else was just too much for her to do. Besides the higher rents now...these guys have had to spend thousands and thousands of dollars building out their shells. The bar areas were not constructed by the collective...and we all know by now that the vinyl roof covering wasnt going to last at all. These expensives, plus having to outfit all the kitchens...etc....was just too much of an expense. It was VERY STRANGE, spending the time on Orient, and not seeing Cheryl's smiling face...not seeing the license plates....not eating Mussels ALA Andy...and not having that ''Cheers'' vibe that Andy and Cheryls had. Of course, a lot of the conversation down there was about Andy and Cheryl...and all the GREAT MEMORIES that were in that shack. The restaurant itself may be gone...but all the great memories will last a lifetime.

perhaps someone with some website skills could get with her and create a "virtual beach shack" with pictures, menus, and license plates. Facebook? Tumblr?

Of all the places, their's is worth keeping a legacy via a virtual Andy & Cheryl's/Baywatch website.

That's what you call a triple net lease. With one of those all you get is a shell and it's up to you to turn it into something special. Its the way of the strip malls and that is essentially what that new Orient development is.

No, I'm sorry, regardless of what you "heard", it was in the papers, NO subleasing and they never had a direct lease. That I know.

With regard to the new buildings, there are numerous problems with them, yes.

Memories, yes, we have a million of them ourselves.

Looking forward to getting there in a week and making my own observations and opinions of the "new and improved"(?) Orient Beach. Somehow I expect to be disappointed, we shall see! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />
Doesn't look like Leandra will be there, bummer.

Yes, Carol, you are right. Andy never had a direct lease, always a sublet on the beach.

Is it confirmed? Cheryl will not open a place? Very dissapointing.