|
Forums39
Topics39,566
Posts320,889
Members26,686
| |
Most Online4,031
Dec 15th, 2024
|
|
|
Posts: 2,837
Joined: October 2003
|
|
|
3 members (jazzgal, Sunfun, Todd),
1,556
guests, and
73
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,490 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,490 Likes: 4 |
Flights will leave on schedule whether confirmed passengers show up or not. As it should be. Not all departing are from the French side. So no need to hold up departures. Good for standbys.
|
|
|
 .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631 |
jeepers said:
I'm wondering what happens at airport with the number of planes that are coming in to leave & pick up people. If planes are waiting for their passengers where will they all fit? Will some land elsewhere & wait for room?
Everyone's nightmare there today. Grand case never did get international designation for their airport I dont think. Too bad, some of jets could land there. Bad situation that's for sure. Impossible, the runway is too short! I doubt planes will wait.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
Gotta say, we here in the US do not understand this, that it is not even illegal to block roads..
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 789
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 789 |
it's interesting that it's apparently ok for the French to stand up for their rights while tromping on the rights and freedoms of their neighbours-seems a bit one sided to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752 |
you cannot speak for a situation you do not understand. the people on the french side are trampled on every day by abusive colonial laws. It's about time they stand up for their rights even if it means temporary inconvenience for others.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752 |
SXMScubaman said:
It just shows how determined they are for their cause. Bigger the pressure the better and quicker the negotiation results. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 80
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 80 |
We are here now. We did the Tiko Tiko cruise today and should have known something was up when we tried to get through Marigot this morning. We are staying in Simpson Bay and got turned around in Marigot. We turned around and went the other direction and still got to Papagayo's in time to catch our boat. However,when we came back in we found aware now trapped on the French side with limited clothes and money. We are eating now at Papagayo and trying to determine what to do next. Some of the people on the trip hired a boat to get them to Oyster Bay and were trying to get a taxi to carry them the rest of the way. Another couple on the trip with us tried to get back and could not. They are back here eating and trying to decide what to do. We may just get a room here at Club O tonight and see if we can wait out the protest.
Wayne & Lynne
Wishing I was knee deep in the water somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
This situation is just intolerable. Let us know how you make out..
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,628
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,628 |
Barbara said:
you cannot speak for a situation you do not understand. the people on the french side are trampled on every day by abusive colonial laws. It's about time they stand up for their rights even if it means temporary inconvenience for others. Making people miss their flights and ship departures is far beyond a "temporary inconvenience". If anything could totally kill the St. Martin / Sint Marteen tourism industry, this is it! As word of this spreads SXM will go back to the 1960s in terms of visitors and tourism revenue which is the mainstay of the island's economy. (Both sides). We have enjoyed our 15 vacations on SXM...but we will not be back! May the blockaders get what they want...poverty and an ego trip... Sadly...
Bill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,292
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,292 |
Bill,
OMG....protesters close the roads for one day, and a day you aren't even on the island....and threatening to never return to the island??? I am sure a protest will not bring the island back to the 1960s...... Do you even know what the protesters are protesting against????
Obviously this protest is over something bigger than most of us tourists understand...and it sure sounds like this has been planned for a long time. It obviously has gotten the attention that it wanted.
Where would we have been as Americans, if our forefathers didn't start to dump that tea in Boston Harbor????
I do not personally know the cause of this protest...but if it is to advance and help the people who live there then all the power to them. We all complain that things should change on SXM, maybe this is going to be the beginning of something good. Time will tell.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752 |
thank you EdB appreciate the support. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,490 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,490 Likes: 4 |
If your at Papagayo's you won't need much in the way of clothing. Money is a different problem. Hope it all works out for you. Got a plastic card?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752 |
I just heard a temporary agreement has been reached and roads are not blocked any mre
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 14
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 14 |
Whether people have legitimate issues is one thing and I have no doubt that the protestors have legitimate concerns. But this situation is anarchy pure and simple. Makes St Martin look like a banana republic. To compare this to the Boston Tea Party is comical. I have reservations for a visit this Saturday and will now cancel.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752 |
I see all of our fair weather friends and love their postings a one day protest and everyone is cancelling? absolutely ridiculous! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631 |
Anyone of you Americans heard about the riots and looting in Baltimore or is this something that just happens in St. Martin ??? Hopefully it won't degenerate into what happened there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 80
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 80 |
The security guard just told us that the road blocks would be coming down in a few minutes. We will try and see what happens. Hoping we get through tonight. We do have plastic cards to get by on if we have to stay.
Wayne & Lynne
Wishing I was knee deep in the water somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,752 |
the riots in Baltimore were violent. as far as I know, there was no violence here. and some resolutions were made which is good. the people on both sides of the island support this protest. sorry for people who were inconvenienced but this was absolutely necessary for the livelihood and protection of local st martiners. without it their land was being taken away from them by implenting ancient colonial laws.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
OK, that is great news, if so, and people on both sides of the issue need to understand that this situation has caused damage to the economic health of the island and a long term solution needs to be made. Tourism is the number one income of the island, despite what some politicians may try to spout.
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 14
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 14 |
Not sure I understand the posts regarding Baltimore. One doesn't justify the other. By the way what occurred In Baltimore was anarchy where the government completely failed its citizens and I have no plans to visit Baltimore either.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
Hope you are able to get back 'home' to where you are staying tonight. Please do post an update when you can.
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631 |
My point is that a peaceful demonstration in St. Martin has all the foreigners up in arms and saying they will never come back and look at what they have in their own country.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
I think there is a huge qualitative difference between a "peaceful demonstration" and a demonstration, however peaceful, that prevents someone from being able to get to their accomodation for several hours, when they have NO idea whether they will be able to get to their hotel or not, and or/causes someone to miss their cruise ship. I sincerely hope that no one missed their ship today because of this incident. For an economy that depends solely on tourism, this is a horrible black mark. For people living on island, a 'temporary inconvenience' for a day is aggravating. For a tourist who saves up for a week long vacation for an entire year, it equates to a reason not to return.
There are already enough reasons for tourists to be wary about going to ST. Martin, from crime concerns to the Euro (not nearly as big a deal recently, agreed), to seaweed, etc. Don't give people more reasons not to come to St. Martin/St. Maarten. It's just not wise.
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 80
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 80 |
Just wanted to let everyone know that we did get back to the condo in Simpson Bay after the roadblocks were taken down. The people that hired the boat from Orient to Oyster Bay might have jumped the gun a little early. They paid a $100 per person to get back to the Dutch side. If they had stuck it out a little longer they could have gotten there by road. Traffic was pretty light when we finally got word all was clear and we could go.
Wayne & Lynne
Wishing I was knee deep in the water somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
Glad to hear you were able to get back to your hotel ok.
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 725 Likes: 3
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 725 Likes: 3 |
Today I have talked to 3 people who were aware of the issues, and to boil it down to basics, they're all concerned that it will result in a reduction of their property values. I know I would be up in arms over this in the states, as would many others, citing the takings clause.
The other concern is that the French side will begin to more resemble the Dutch side. I would be concerned about this as well, even though it is a longer term threat.
Fortunately, we were able to roll with the punch on this, getting back to GCBC around 4 hours later than planned, but productively filling the gap. I'm sure there are lots of cruisers who got stuck after they closed down the Oyster Pond route.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 879
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 879 |
Carol, relative to your latest response on effect on cruise ship visitors and cruise lines, by default.
Oct 20 2 ships in. Oct 21 no ships in. Oct 22 4 ships in. Oct 23 1 ship in. And on it goes. Obviously the "demonstration" today was targeted to the highest presence of ships in port sine Oct 14. Next 4 ship day is Nov 3. One of the objectives must have been to trap as many cruise ship visitors as possible in the gridlock and inconvenience the cruise lines. Road blockages started around 1 to 2 pm, when the busses/taxi's were well out on the French side. I wonder how many visitors missed their sailing deadline, or how many ships had to stay in port. Why not flex the muscle on a 0 cruise ship day? Had one on 21st and another coming up on 24th.
Voting is the way this should be handled, not a bunch of irresponsible anarchistic behavior, probably by a very small minority of the residents. This type of behavior ultimately causes more problems in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 268
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 268 |
Carol_Hill said:
There are already enough reasons for tourists to be wary about going to ST. Martin, from crime concerns to the Euro (not nearly as big a deal recently, agreed), to seaweed, etc. Carol, I don't understand the part about the Euro? Why would the local currency (esp. a major world currency) make people wary of traveling to St Martin? With regard to the protest, I think we tourists have to remember we are visitors and that crap will happen when you travel. For some, yes, it will stop them from going or returning. For others it becomes part of the adventure. For the people who live on the island, the issue that they are protesting will likely impact them for years. It sounds to me like this is more an act of civil disobedience. And civil disobedience is a key tool in a democracy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2 |
soualigacapt said:
Anyone of you Americans heard about the riots and looting in Baltimore or is this something that just happens in St. Martin ??? Hopefully it won't degenerate into what happened there. If it does degenerate into something similar to Baltimore than I hope it is limited to the French side.
Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2 |
geokman said:
Not sure I understand the posts regarding Baltimore. One doesn't justify the other. By the way what occurred In Baltimore was anarchy where the government completely failed its citizens and I have no plans to visit Baltimore either. I agree with you wholeheartedly. If the protesters In Saint Martin want to compare themselves to the rioters in Baltimore than I feel very sorry for them.
Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2 |
soualigacapt said:
My point is that a peaceful demonstration in St. Martin has all the foreigners up in arms and saying they will never come back and look at what they have in their own country. What an amazing comment. People don't travel to the island to be experiencing these major inconveniences and possibly have their vacations ruined. We know what we have in our own country and aren't accepting of this type of behavior in our own place of residence. I will continue traveling to St Maarten and continue favoring the Dutch side.
Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331 |
We were starting to get highway protests in the US over the summer where members of the Black Lives Matter group would shut a major freeway down in several cities across the nation on the same day. These protests are never sanctioned with permits as they endanger public safety. I find it massively counterproductive as for getting people to listen to your causes but that's just me. The major difference in the US compared to the island is the geographic size allows most to be inconvenienced but also able to find many alternate routes (the people on the highway are screwed however).
If I were behind this type of protest in the US with my pregnant wife that was having a medical emergency I would beep my horn and yell out the window to try to get them to move out of they then accelerate and plow through....I would not feel the least bit bad about any injuries/deaths that will occur as a result and I doubt a jury would blame me as well. I only say this because if theses type of protests continue to happen a situation similar to that is bound to occur and my prediction is that you will never see another protest like that again (tougher penalties for the protesters). Standing up for what you believe in or what you want changed is one thing but possibly endangering the public is entirely different. I realize that different cultures/countries do things entirely different but being different doesn't mean its right. Getting back to your resort 4 hours late is minor inconvenience, missing a plane/ship is a major inconvenience, dying because you are separated from the hospital or the ambulance can't get to you should be a criminal offense. These type of protests have probably never had any deaths attributed to them.....but that's probably more to do with luck rather than design.
Last edited by Mantas; 10/23/2015 03:26 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631 |
A protest is a protest and they are done to make a point. That's the whole idea. I willing to bet not one cruise ship passenger missed the ship. Under the circumstances they wait. Ships are delayed all the time for medical emergencies, mechanical breakdowns (quite often) etc. It happens. Airlines are delayed and cancelled all the time too. It's a pain in the neck but it happens. Many of the people protesting probably have businesses that lost money yesterday. They were willing to sacrifice in order to make a point and get attention for their cause. Luckily it remained peaceful. Neither is fun and easy to deal with. Of course if you do not agree with the cause you get mad by the inconvenience but it is not the end of the world. Everyone is so worried about inconvenience to tourists and it is inconvenient but who remembers when the local population was inconvenienced when 2500 cruise ship people had to be moved from the ship to the airport when the ship was stuck in SXM. The roads were blocked all day on the dutch side. Money was lost and appointments were missed. We took in stride and were happy to help the stranded tourists and we stayed off the roads. We all pitched in to make the tourists feel that St. Martin cared about them. My vacation to France was delayed and inconvenienced by a Air France strike. It made me miss the first few days and cost me 2 extra days in Paris which was expensive but it was what it was. Going on vacation does not mean that you are protected from the normal affairs that happen in life.
Yes, your money spent is important and appreciated but the local people have issues that are just as important to them as is your vacation is to you even though of the over 2 million tourists that come to St. Martin maybe a couple of hundred or less were inconvenienced yesterday. There is always an alternative and a solution.
Many of you complaining on the board are not even here and the chances of something like this happening when you are here is extremely rare. This does not happen every day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,595 Likes: 2
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,595 Likes: 2 |
Barbara said:I see all of our fair weather friends and love their postings a one day protest and everyone is cancelling? absolutely ridiculous! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> I for one wish I could immediately jump on a plane and join the line to support these people. It appalls me that Americans expect everything & every place to be like America.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,821 Likes: 2 |
Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,713 Likes: 1
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,713 Likes: 1 |
soualigacapt said:
A protest is a protest and they are done to make a point. That's the whole idea. I willing to bet not one cruise ship passenger missed the ship. Under the circumstances they wait. Ships are delayed all the time for medical emergencies, mechanical breakdowns (quite often) etc. It happens. Airlines are delayed and cancelled all the time too. It's a pain in the neck but it happens. Many of the people protesting probably have businesses that lost money yesterday. They were willing to sacrifice in order to make a point and get attention for their cause. Luckily it remained peaceful. Neither is fun and easy to deal with. Of course if you do not agree with the cause you get mad by the inconvenience but it is not the end of the world. Everyone is so worried about inconvenience to tourists and it is inconvenient but who remembers when the local population was inconvenienced when 2500 cruise ship people had to be moved from the ship to the airport when the ship was stuck in SXM. The roads were blocked all day on the dutch side. Money was lost and appointments were missed. We took in stride and were happy to help the stranded tourists and we stayed off the roads. We all pitched in to make the tourists feel that St. Martin cared about them. My vacation to France was delayed and inconvenienced by a Air France strike. It made me miss the first few days and cost me 2 extra days in Paris which was expensive but it was what it was. Going on vacation does not mean that you are protected from the normal affairs that happen in life.
Yes, your money spent is important and appreciated but the local people have issues that are just as important to them as is your vacation is to you even though of the over 2 million tourists that come to St. Martin maybe a couple of hundred or less were inconvenienced yesterday. There is always an alternative and a solution.
Many of you complaining on the board are not even here and the chances of something like this happening when you are here is extremely rare. This does not happen every day. Very well stated, Captain. Not saying I agree with the demonstration but I'm not disagreeing with it either. Anytime we step outside our own environment things will happen and as is usually the case, the 'what' that happened isn't nearly as important as is the 'how' we chose to deal with it. We are all guests on the island and we can either take the good with the bad or stay home. I feel bad for all those inconvenienced but I'm pretty sure the people protesting wouldn't be doing it in the first place if their reasons weren't justified. Who wants to lose their pay for no good reason anyway? Like it or not, WE are not the most important thing happening on SXM, but like it or not, the government needs to find a better way to deal with the citizenry and I'm betting they know that today..... And if so, then the purpose was served. But c'mon, people, to compare it to Baltimore? Really?
Respectfully,
pat
"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 311
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 311 |
People blocking roads are breaking the law. A couple of buses and a dozen Gendarmes could have solved the problem in an hour.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Traveler
|
|
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8 |
We are on island and were Impacted by the civil disobedience that occurred yesterday. Spent a beautiful day on Orient Beach and then about 2:30 then beach boys started alerting the people on the beach that if we needed to get to the Dutch side we should leave before the borders were completely closed. We packed up and started off. We had been tipped off that the route thru Oyster Pond might still be open so we went that way. 3 cars had left at the same time and we all ended up turning around and heading back to Orient. One of the couples did hook up with a local that thought he knew a way around the blockage but no luck. So we spent another 1 1/2 on the nearly empty beach. Took off again at 5pm and eventually ended up at in Orleans parked on the road right up front where we could see the barricade with the radio tuned to a station discussing the situation.
Locals passing by were friendly and helpful. We had our kindle, phones and beer so we were in good shape. we feel safe and were willing to wait it out. Just before the blockade was lifted someone did light a trash container on fire and that was the only disturbing thing that happened. However, the gendarmes were there and turned the dumpster over - unfortunately no one had a fire extinguisher - they ended up bringing in a front loader to put the fire out. Finally some movement started happening, the radio was stating that the demands were met and the protestors were simply waiting for confirmation before opening up the road.
Finally all of the equipment started moving out of the way - we were about the 6th car thru and we made it to Simpson Bay by 8pm.
In no way did we feel that our vacation was ruined. Small inconvenience for us but sounds like big gains for the property owners on the French side.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
Huh? You don't understand why people would not travel to St. Martin because of the Euro??? Do you read any of the 1 to 1 threads??
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4
Traveler
|
|
OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,993 Likes: 4 |
Daily Herald story With regard to tourist busses, the story says that Theo requested that they be let through, but it doesn't say whether busses were in fact let through or not.
Carol Hill
|
|
|
|
|
.
