TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums Nude Resorts, Beaches and Cruises Why are c/o resort failing and what can be done?

As a follow up to the post by Bill_S:

Why do you think c/o and nude resorts are failing. I have my own opinion, but the question needs to be asked. And the ones that are successful, why are they successful and other are not.

Now I know that there are conservative and liberal issues, but let us not make this political in that nature. There are conservative areas that c/o resort are still in operation and profitable and there are liberal areas where they have gone out of business. So let us not go there.... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

The question is: Why are they failing.... why are they not profitable ... what if anything can we do to help or make a difference?

Regarding pofitability --- any resort has to be profitable, so that has to be a given... if it is not profitable, nude or textile makes no difference, it WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

So are we doing something wrong? Can go into a lot there, not that we are, but could we do better, and what is better?

Just questions that I think need to be answered and thought about for the betterment of the c/o nude community.

There are no always times when you just stand by and accept the situation (did not read right, but you get the idea), but what can be done realistically, what can be done otherwise, but then is there cooperation between resorts and the customers??? A whole lot to think about and probably realistically needs to be discussed.

Not that it may or may not be anything, but it also might be more than we know? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> Smaller things have happened, that is for sure! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm not trying to make this political. About five years or so ago either Time or Newsweek had a cover story on naturism and one of the statistics they found was that conservative Republicans were more likely that Independents or Democrats to be naturists and/or belong to a club. I find that my friends sweep across the political spectrum.

Sweep across the political spectrum is a good term. Only a small percentage of the population (10%?) sit at each end of the spectrum (but they are the most vocal and, being so, get the most media coverage). The remaining 80% are spread across the spectrum in various ways. One example would be someone who is a social liberal and a fiscal conservative...

In any event, this discussion will not turn into a political argument...so says the Moderator. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

Bill--why do you think so many resorts are going away from c/o beaches?? My personal guess is that younger people are not in to c/o and that's where the money is.. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Carol,

We just returned from a 2 week trip to Lake Tahoe. There are several remote nudist beaches there to hike to and enjoy. All ages were represented at these beaches. Young parents with children to teenagers and couples in the 60s and 70s. All enjoying the beautiful scenery al-naturale.

I think it is a money issue. Our last visit to our favorite nudist resort here in So Cal cost us $300+ per night for a basic motel 6 type room. That can add up. If it was less expensive we would probably go more frequently.

I agree that age is a factor. Based on previous comments and questions on here & elsewhere, many 20-somethings seem to be almost terrified of the sight of a bunch of nekkid seniors sitting around. We "of a certain age" realize that people are people, and we tend to be less judgmental. And many c/o resorts are making efforts to promote younger guests and members.

Good discussion starting to emerge, keep it going...

I think there may be differences in the way a naturist venue is set up and run which influences its ability to attract new / additional customers. I tend to put these venues into two categories: those that are run as a CLUB and those that are run as a RESORT. I believe those run as resorts thrive better than those run as clubs...

Here are how I see each (and yes, there are exceptions in each case):

Those run as a CLUB often:
- allow only three initial "visits" and then require purchase of an annual membership with a significant fee.
- may require a committee of current members to approve the newcomers after the three initial visits.
- may require nudity at all times when on the property... and everywhere on the property.
- may have a small number of older members who consider themselves the "nude police" and loudly call out anyone who is not "nude enough".
- may admit "couples only" ... even in some cases not allow a member to be on site without their partner.
- may further define couples as one man and one woman.


Those run as a RESORT often:
- allow unlimited visits (at a somewhat higher daily fee) for those not choosing to become members.
- offer nice lodging and dining options for all at a money-making price.
- provide full members who pay annual dues attractive discounts on lodging and charge them zero day fees.
- are CLOTHING OPTIONAL to attract (and keep) newcomers and couples where one partner is more comfortable wearing some level of clothing, requiring full nudity only in the pools and hot tubs.
- have a membership which is friendly and welcoming and not divided into cliques that ignore newcomers.
- typically have regular dances and other events to attract a wider range of visitors.

The three resorts I mentioned above fully embody these later characteristics.

More discussion, please.

Hi Carol,

The only beach c/o resort we have ever been to is Club Orient and it is going strong so I do not have much experience in this area.

On the broader question, however, we do...

We did not get interested in naturest resorts until we had been married for 20 years and the kids were teens that could be left with Grandma while we took the cruise we had been talking about for that 20 years but never had.

Our last port of call was SXM and we wound up at Club Orient. The rest us history!

I think a lot of couples wait until the kids are old enough to leave with Grandparents for a week before resuming "couples vacations" in addition to "family vacations" with the kids.

So starting to go to nude resorts often occurs in middle age.

On the other hand we are seeing a lot of new couples and singles in their late 20s and 30s coming to Avalon these days, so there is a beginning surge in younger naturists..l

I agree it is a money issue, but not in the way you suggest. As a former "owner" of a rustic CO seasonal venture, just as Eric accurately pointed out, if its not profitable it will not stay in business. Unfortunately, Nudists represent some very small percent of the entire population (you pick your own number)- certainly MUCH less than the general population that attends a clothed venue of some sort. This by logic and operation makes nudists venues compete (i.e. fill up their space) with a very limited available population while the clothed venues market to the much larger population. In other words, nude anything is at a premium and to survive must charge more to make up for the shortage of numbers.
Unfortunately, Nudists (many) tend to be cheap, always looking for rock bottom prices and 4 star facilities - guess what folks, that doesn't work, which is why many nudists facilities which you used to enjoy change to clothing venues or simply close. That trend will continue to follow that pattern until we as a population also change. Does anybody think Caliente WANTED to change to their present venue? They had basically very limited choices, go clothing, close or fill the place up with the wild side party people who do not mind SUPPORTING AND SPENDING money on venues they enjoy. Not easy choices but closing was not ever an option that they were willing to entertain - and I don't blame them. While their choice is certainly not for many (most) of us, they have survived where many others have not. And BTW, their demographics is probably 25 years younger than the former Caliente clients and or Como and or Paradise etc. etc. etc.
Lastly, how many of you (us) would pay a serious premium (40-60%)to support our local (or any) nudist venue EVEN if we knew it was in danger and may have to close? The answer to that question will most probably tell us what the immediate future of CO venues will likely be.
Great topic Eric, TY

This is a good topic, and being so new to nude travel I have very little to offer. I would like to know if the prevalence of cell phones, social media, and being open to having your photo posted on the internet for all to see virtually instantly might be having some effect on nude beaches/resorts. Thoughts?

I had the same thought about social media - I wonder if it is a factor - the fact that anyone can take a picture of a person and have it published to the world almost instantaneously.

Good insights Bare...

I remember many years ago when I started my Masters (Business) program the "Introduction to Business Administration" professor asked our class "What is the first duty for every business?" As we students stated various lofty goals and altruistic statements the prof scribbled them down onto the blackboard. When we had exhausted all our ideas he stood in the middle of the room and looked over our statements and then stated "NO, you are ALL wrong!"

He walked back to the front of the room, turned to face us, and said:

"The first duty of every business is TO SURVIVE!"

He continued, "And the second duty of every business is to MAKE A PROFIT!"

"If you do not do these two things first, you will not be around long enough to do ANY of these other great and wonderous things you said!"

Very insightful topic and I hope an open rational discussion with lots of input and ideas will help clarify the multiple demographic and other issues relating to declining participation.

As a first comment by me, I see parallels with what is happening in established church membership. Are there common reasons? I am not sure. I do see, however, a better recognition of the "problem" among mainstream religions and a ramping up of their focus and effort to deal with this trend. Certainly well ahead of what the nudist/naturist community is doing to date.

I will be following this discussion and hope to add other insights (for lack of a better word) as things progress. Good work Eric, hope to run into you and Carol on the Club O beach someday. Toes in the sand Oct 13.

Good points Markis and Snorkeller... The FEAR of that happening would certainly be a deterrent to trying a nudest facility for the first time... That is why most venues have strict "no photography" policies...and enforce them...

My favorite example is the wooden board sign as you walk onto Club Orient's beach stating absolutely no photography! Scattered about on the face of the sign are several cameras that are nailed to the board by large spikes pounded through the lenses and out the backs of the cameras...

Hey, Bill, I think I would have gotten the professor's question right on the first try, as I would have said "the first duty of every business is to MAKE MONEY!!" <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Interesting perspective by Bare (I think) that naturists are in general, cheap. That could be, I suppose. What also is interesting to me is that there are a lot of people throughout the world who enjoy nude or topless sunbathing, who have a pretty decent amount of money. Those folks I guess don't call themselves 'naturists', but prefer to say that they enjoy their 'privacy', by way of private villas or charter boats, etc. So, maybe that is the answer......... or not. That ignores the whole social side of naturism, which is a huge part of it--the total feeling of open comraderie which it seems one can only find at a naturist venue.

I agree with the analogy to mainstream religions ChunkyDunkin... I see the similar changes happening in our church here in MD...active engagement with new members, actively starting up new programs when newcomers identify an "I wish we...(had/did/could)" ...often putting the person wishing for something in charge of the new effort to make it happen and gathering other members together to help turn the wish into reality...

That's how groups grow and prosper!

As for "established church membership", all my naturist friends are regular church goers and take their faith very seriously. Most are Roman Catholics and not from an area that is mostly Catholic. In fact, I am the only non-religious one of the bunch.

Well, the first nudist resort was Eden...and that was before the fall... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />
(Genesis 2:25)

Yeah, but with such a small membership it was bound to go under.

ROFLMAO... And it DID!

OK, we have drifted off topic...back to the subject at hand: keeping naturist venues viable and in business...

Interesting discussion. These are my thoughts based on personal observations and comments. Now I know we are not supposed to get political, but here in Long Island, Gov. Cuomo has decided to enforce state anti-nudity laws. Fact.
Second, I think many younger people feel naturists are a bunch of aging hippies they have nothing in common with, and I believe due to their age, they have not developed a sense of confidence that a 40 something may feel due to personal experience. Third, this very same group feels it's disgusting that old folks have no problem with their"junk" hanging out. Finally, many of those same younger people think a c/o club or beach is a sexual free for all. Hence this is why the politicos and textiles make things difficult for naturist venues to strive. Kind of like a "not in my neighborhood" mentality. Which in a way is the fault of some naturist resorts and trravel venues catered to swinging and overt sexual tendency advertised as "mature adult" clubs.
Again, the question remains. To reverse this trend follow the Haulover Beach model. Organize ourselves and work together to create a beach ambassador program t prevent unacceptable behavior. Work and cooperate with law enforcement. And I know I'll catch alot of criticism for this one , but ban alcoholic beverages at nude beach venues, as I can attest I've seen a lot of people act really stupid. As far as cell phones and photos are concerned, they are here to stay. We must be vigilant amongst ourselves to see this doesn't create a harmful environment. I'm sure we can all spot the pervs who sneak as opposed to the couple (and I have seen this at Club O) who choose to photograph themselves as naturist etiquette dictates.

Yeah, I would say that most naturists would much prefer to ban cell phones and cameras, before alcoholic beverages. Hard to hide a camera in a drink--although possible, I suppose...

This topic has prompted a lot of conversation between my wife and myself. The problem, as I see it is not just one problem, but many problems.

In the first place, some of the clubs we've visited had lodging facilities that fell short of even Motel 6. One club we visited did not have key to lock the door. Another had a serious mold problem and no bathroom, so you had to walk about 100 yds. to use the bathroom in the middle of the night, and the last one took the cake. The trailer at the club was advertised as being 30 ft. when it was really about 20. And when the manager opened the door, the stench was so bad that it almost knocked you over. So in some cases the facilities are far from what we are used to in the USA as even basic housing.

Sometimes the managers are also less than friendly or accomodating. Last month we want to stay at a club we have stayed at several times, usually for 4-7 days, but the owner said that if we couldn't be there before noon this time, they couldn't accomodate us at all during the week. So the club owners, in some cases are turning people off.

Second, in some cases, the members are less than friendly, and that can turn people off. However, we have had some wonderful experiences with very friendly clubs, so it usually just depends on the club.

In the third place, the activities tend to be more centered on the older crowd, and this is not the kind of thing that attracts young people. The demographics of most clubs is older, so that also doesn't attract the young people.

Fourth, the swinger thing is a definite challenge. I had a nudist B+B owner tell me that one of his guests told him that if he would admit swingers and their activities, that he could promise him he'd be full every weekend.

Lastly, the cost that some resorts/clubs charge is just too much in some cases. I've been charged much more than a place like Cypress Cove for far less than quality than CC. That too will turn people off.

However, I do have some positive input.
First, I think that there are plenty of young nudists and plenty that would try it. The clubs just have to find a way to attract them.

I also think that if someone could get some of the run down clubs to clean up their facilities or lose their AANR affiliation, there would be more enthusiasm for nudism in general.

I also have a suggestion, and this addresses the cost issue. There are more RVer's than ever, and some estimate that there are over a million people that are full time RVers. Usually these are people past 40. But for a full timer, traveling around the country, staying at a nudist resort or moving from resort to resort is a problem, because with the grounds fees and lot rental, its just cost prohibitive. So my idea is sell a membership to AANR, that would give you very cheap or no grounds fees at all the clubs, so that the RVer would just pay the lot rental. More RVers might come to use the clubs and stay in the parks and pay lot rent. When they stayed the club owner would get some money from AANR, as the RVers ground fee. I think this could help tap into a large group of people that would like to stay at a nudist resort from time to time.

Finally, I would advise that there should be some serious changes in the AANR community into how the clubs and organization are run, or its going to continue to shrink or fail. And the longer the delay, the less likely it is that the organization will survive.

Thanks for your imput. I think you might have something there, with the RV idea and an AANR membership. But, why limit it to that?? Why not have a membership like that for anyone to stay in the regular units, based on availability, of course. This would have to be a lot more expensive a membership than your RV idea, but seems like it would be something that would appeal to a lot of people who like to travel around to different areas of the country.

We are in the middle of a extended rv trip and Prairienaked hit it on the head. While we would prefer to stay at clothing optional locations, the daily fee plus camp fee gets crazy. Couple that with the unknown quality/hospitality then one tends to shy away. We opted to stay a month at Cypress cove because we knew what to expect and when you stay for a month daily rate becomes reasonable. I sure do not know the answer is but some are getting it right and others very wrong. Like Bill stated on other post, huge difference between "resort" and "camp or park". Using the word does not make it so. Some locations fail to update/improve facilities and thus loose the appeal and visitors. To offset loss in visitors they raise rates which drives away more guest and potential members. A downward spiral...

That is a big thing right there. It would seem that it would be easier to find out the details of a particular place that it is. Not sure where the marketing is/if any. Many times the websites are not very good about explaining much of anything about the facilities, terms, prices, etc. Sometimes it seems like they do not want people to know about them at all.

And of course clubs in the US are different than locations in the Caribbean for example. I think maybe for some or even many people that are experiencing it for the first time or times -- that if they go to the "resorts" in the caribbean, then they are generally or completely disappointed in the US facilities.

I think that should be easy to overcome to some extent, but it takes an effort on the part of the US facility. As a result of what I just said, I am not sure that hardly any of the US locations have or are even prepared to find out what the new visitor is expecting, wanting, etc. and then be able to at the very least explain what they have to offer in order to avoid the disappointment by the new visitor.

I'd venture a guess not enough "deep pockets" or, for that matter, ANY pockets coming to visit <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

The long standing Florida panhandle club I belonged to went textile after the owner died. One of the members found a struggling local textile campground and resurrected it as a nudist resort hoping the nudist membership would follow. The campground didn't have a pool, a must have for nudist if your not located on a beautiful beach and the club floundered. The new owner's favorite saying was "if you want to make a million bucks running a nudist resort just start with two million and very shortly you will have one million"!

Just look at Paradise Valley Resort for a successful turnaround of a floundering nudist resort. Invite the lifestylers in, warn the nudist when an event is going to be lifestyle and to stay away. Try to harmonize the two groups with enough pure nudist content which they seem to be successfully doing. Their membership and resort is growing by leaps because the two groups are tolerant and the manager works hard to please both.

Good information as I did not know that and it is on our list of places to visit. Still plan to visit but now have additional questions to ask as before scheduling. As you say, a owner trying to keep everyone happy, not easy but possible.

This is a good discussion. We seem a little unique to nude travel compared to others on here. Many here seem to seek out nudist venues first, then focus on destination. We decide where we want to go, then see if there is a place we can stay that allows nudity. (at least that is my impression) I think that is why we are so disappointed in the changes in Key West in particular, we really like Key West, and all the CO B&B's seem to be changing over.
We are island travelers, and the Caribbean also seems to be losing many of it's CO resorts.
Orient is too crowded for us, and Hedo is a little too crazy for us. Couples resorts still offers a great venue that seems to fit our personality.

Orient is too crowded? On the beach?? Never found Orient to be too crowded.. It's really too bad that Grand Lido Braco is gone, as it really was a pretty perfect nude resort.

Curious Carol_in your view what made Braco your perfect resort? What elements/vibe did Braco have that other similar resorts did not?

It was the perfect PHYSICAL plant, in that there was a whole separate nude side to the resort. They had a HUGE nude pool, with a volleyball playing section, swim up bar, HUGE nude hot tub, wonderful nude beach, all rooms on the nude side were full ocean view, there was 24 hour room service, including delivering champagne to the nude hot tub, etc., etc. The physical facilities there were just outstanding..

I heard a saying that "humans are humans and they have been for a long time". I think most humans would enjoy walking in the open air in the all together and love skinny dipping-- if they had the opportunity to try it.

There just aren't that many opportunities for that first try either in their backyard or locally ---

that is why SXM cruise stops have probably afforded many a comfortable first time. Until that first time, your mind has a lot of misconceptions and inhibitions.

Most of the US clubs are 50+ years old. A lot of families brought their kids in the 60,70,80s. Today, I suspect that has dwindled comparatively with parents probably finding it harder to do with all the focus on "protecting" children and thus they can't afford to be misconstrued --- that makes it harder for those younger people to transition and must wait until they hit 40 and take a cruise to SXM.

I'm pretty sure if every American got a free cruise with a free shore excursion to Orient Beach with free Perch Coupons and a free lunch at Papagayo, the population of nudists would skyrocket.

c/o resorts are failing not the desire to be CO


Our perspective, we live within 1 hours of two CO "resorts" and have been to each one just once, been to others as well-once. Overpriced, $50 a day to just visit, you kidding me. For a tiny pool that in one case had a bath tub ring around it. Conditions of grounds are at best like a marginal camp ground. Even for us middle aged folks, everybody is much older. Not that we don't like older folks ...going to be there sooner then we like, but want to chat about more then what is was like during the war. Accommodations, really? We have traveled a bit and have spent countless nights away and nowhere has any naturist venue even come close to the standards of a Hampton Inn. Younger folks have grown up to except and their kids have stayed at places where the norm is modern, cleaner, bigger and better…even on the low end of the hospitality scale. That’s why all these road side mom and pop motels are closed up....same analogy for naturist venues. The closest resort that holds a candle is Caliente, but that’s not now a true naturist venue from what I understand (have not been there). The down side when naturist venues add more of a party atmosphere they become more sexual, so the viscous cycle starts. Make it more fun – this makes it harder and more effort by the venue to control and manage but alienate some people - Don’t make changes - you get our attitude (which many share) we just won’t go, no new members and the venues just withers away.

P.S. I like the idea of TVs at Club and that won’t make me spend more time in the room. But if anything it makes the resort more modern.

I think that is a legitimate issue. We have paid that for a day pass at an all inclusive in the Caribbean, but then you got food and drink at no charge, along with towels, etc. So that is a downside for sure... and sometimes the day pass is per person, which then, well....

I remember a long time ago we went to a "club" as a day pass thing. They required full nudity from the moment you entered the property. We were met at the parking lot area, told about the full nudity, said ok. Put "everything" in the car and locked it. Went to the office --- you know when you require full nudity there is no place to put the credit card!!!!! It would have been helpful if they had directed/taken us to the office before, instead we had to take everything off once we got out of the car!! Yes, we had a beach bag, see below but.... Never went back, they were friendly enough after the fact, but that was not the point and it did not make us feel welcome from the get go.

We had taken along a beach bag for towels, so we were fine. But we did not know what we would have done if we had not had the beach bag. It wuold have been awkward. The details on day passes generally leave a whole lot to be desired, as we took towels as we did not know if they were provided or not. I cannot remember if they wanted to see what was in the beach bag or not, all I remember was the uncomfortable feeling at the very beginning of the day. I don't think that is the best way to encourage things, at least in my opinion. It does a disservice to the resort and the c/o-nudity experience. And we had been to multiple c/o resorts already, but in the caribbean.

Now as a result of my last post... that is not true of all resorts in the US at all. We were invited to Avalon for example.... happen to know one of the members... ok more than one and even the manager (I assume still there?). But we asked our friends about it after the other experience. They assured us in completely frank and no question about what we were asking. We did relate out prior experience to them.

The complete experience from moment one until we left was 1000% different and in my opinion the way things shoud be done and handled. We went there several times as a result and stayed there also. Congrats to a well run resort/club whatever you want to call it. But it was one of our better experiences in the US. That being said we have never been to any of the clubs/resort out west only a few on the east coast around Virginia and of course now around Florida.

But now we rarely, if ever, go even around here. We bought our property with c/o in mind. We have our pool, hot tub (don't use much, as who needs a hot tub in the summer when the pool is in the 90's <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> ). We have privacy, one house that could see into the backyard at the right time, currently. But even that is being taken care of.... as it was not an issue at all for several years prior. Plants/bushes can do a wonderful thing also! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> Besides I mentioned to them (neighbors) that they might see something at times (not intended) and they said "so"! But still elimating the issue.

When I was still in corporate world and constantly doing customer satisfaction surveys, the phrase "worth what paid for" was used. Some club owners or managers need to back up and ask themselves that question concerning the 'product' they are delivering. Just a thought.

I agree completely! The "product" is more than just the resort/club it is far more than that! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

If the product is "motel 6" then that is one thing, sadly to state that I actually stayed at a motel 6 for business...... but it was maybe the right decision at the time... still not sure about that, as it was terrible! But will not go there! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> It was motel 5, ok you get...................

Yes, I was in the "corp world", but on a per diem and other things. Getting married shortly..... Does honeymoon in Aruba sound ok???? Motel6, ok and driving back and forth between the location where I was and where the "BRIDE" was seemed like a good thing to do at the time .... Not sure I would change it today even IF I had to stay in Motel5! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

And the bride was beautiful by the way! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

AND STILL IS!!!! (Give me a break here.... are you going to any of you going to say ANYTHING different.... are you stupid????) <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Seems to me that resorts and campgrounds fail because they overcharge. People are reluctant to try new things, except on vacation. If the pricing is competitive with textile resorts, and there's equivalent value, then it's no big loss for a curious non-nudist to test the waters. But spending beau-coup bucks on something you might hate is not going to happen often.