Forums39
Topics39,141
Posts317,264
Members26,624
|
Most Online2,995 Sep 3rd, 2024
|
|
10 registered members (Manpot, WWII, Lionsail, ARC, LINNY, TRIM, 4 invisible),
1,416
guests, and 307
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: JimCandD]
#37256
02/01/2015 04:25 PM
02/01/2015 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,623 originally Long Island, NY/now...
irish1223
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,623
originally Long Island, NY/now...
|
Agreed, not the end of the world - for us. But it could be the end of a good business for Philippe unless they grant an exception for something that has been a good thing for a long time. Sad.
Robin & Ed
One’s destination is never a place, but a new way of seeing things. - Henry Miller
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: irish1223]
#37257
02/01/2015 04:39 PM
02/01/2015 04:39 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,957 New Brunswick & Quebec, Canada
MarcG
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,957
New Brunswick & Quebec, Canada
|
irish1223 said: Agreed, not the end of the world - for us. But it could be the end of a good business for Philippe unless they grant an exception for something that has been a good thing for a long time. Sad. I'm sure Philippe can find another deserted beach somewhere and start a new special tradition
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: TikoTiko]
#37258
02/01/2015 04:51 PM
02/01/2015 04:51 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,628 Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
Bill_S
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,628
Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
|
TikoTiko said: The end of an era….The Government of Saint-Martin has decreed Arrete no001-06 no more nudity on Tintamarre. On our last cruise to Tintamarre Capt Philippe was approached by the Reserve Naturel and told no more nudity on Tintamarre. On the boat and around in the water ok..but a swimsuit or pareo to stroll the beach… we hope that Club O can convince them to grant an excemption for TIKO TIKO on the grounds of acquired rights over 16years… I have a suggestion for Capt. Philippe, having enjoyed TikoTiko cruises many times over the years: - buy a quantity of inexpensive pareos or sarongs, - buy a round inflated float with a solid bottom and a waterproof plastic crate - buy a short length of rope and a heavy anchor When you arrive at Tintamare anchor the float in knee-deep water, with the Pareo pile in the crate in the float. Your passengers can frolic in the water totally nude, but must grab a Pareo and wrap it around their waists before stepping onto the sand...and leave it on until back in the water... As they go in and out of the water they just grab a pareo each time they go ashore and then take it off as soon as their ankles are wet and return it to the float. The Captain and mate would have to grab one as they go ashore as well... My recomendation would be to buy the thinest pareos you could find! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Doh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Devil.gif" alt="" />
Bill
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: TravelHat]
#37260
02/01/2015 04:57 PM
02/01/2015 04:57 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,628 Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
Bill_S
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,628
Southern Maryland suburbs of D...
|
TravelHat said: Don't forget to buy a XXL for those offensive 300 pounders <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> Fortunately, pareos are "one size fits all!"
Bill
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: MandK]
#37267
02/01/2015 05:50 PM
02/01/2015 05:50 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,587
Eric_Hill
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,587
|
Thanks for your thoughts. I probably have offended (I know I have) more than you want to know over the years, goes with the territory! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
Things change, that is a fact of life no matter where you are located. Things change just in routine life for that matter even.... for example I have a "stupid phone" still... the purpose of the phone is to make and recieve phone calls!!! That is it, nothing else, not text, not browsing the web, etc., to make a freaken phone call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the purpose of the cell phone!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
I do NOT need or WANT anything else, period. Do you know how hard it is just to replace a "stupid cell phone" today? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
But that is a whole different thing! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#37269
02/01/2015 06:14 PM
02/01/2015 06:14 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192 Columbia, SC, USA
DandM29212
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Columbia, SC, USA
|
Carol_Hill said: I certainly would be interested in hearing the justification for this, as it makes no sense.. Great question and a few subsequent comments have vaguely tried to respond to this, but bottom line - no one on here seems to know why these actions have been taken. Did "Government officials just took it upon themselves to act." Really? How naïve! Why do we not see postings from any of the business owners with clear statements from the French authorities as to why they have taken several actions? Have none of them called to get an answer why these anti-nudity actions are being enacted? Between TTOL, Facebook, EverythingSXM, and other sites, do you believe we have no leverage that they'd want to use? In other words, the government has mysteriously taken action that hurts some businesses and many visitors, and those businesses don't know why, haven't called to find out why, and don't seem to care about getting anyone involved? (Reminds many, I’m sure, of the Caravanserai situation as just another example of how the business owners don't care a lick about tourist concerns, right?) Facts show SXM tourism is down significantly. Last 5 years - Jamaica tourism is up 14%, DR 18%, Belize 20%, Caymans 14%, Cuba 22%, Puerto Rico 21%, Aruba 18%, St Lucia 8%, Mexico Caribbean Coast 43%. Saint Martin is a decline of 1.7%! (OneCaribbeanWorld.org) Yes, people are finding other places to go, especially younger people and especially as evidenced by the growth in the Mexico Caribbean basin. Again, we need to ask why. Sure, crime, drugs, traffic, etc impact it, but those are common factors to Mexico and all the other islands that are showing high growth rates. One thing is, SXM had a special allure for years, one that captivated the hearts of people similar to those of you who are TTOL regulars. For many, the allure of Club O and the French permission for beach toplessness was one of the differentiating factors from those other islands, and it brought MANY visitors. For many nudists, without it, SXM is just another island with its own pros and cons. The crackdowns at Orient and overall French side attitude have caused many friends we’ve made in past years on Orient to say they’re not going back to SXM anymore. Actions like this Tintamere ban are individually insignificant maybe, but cumulatively, they simply accelerate the exodus to other islands. Our next visit in March will determine whether we move on from SXM. Cancelling our Tiko Tiko day of freedom will give us time to reflect on SXM in general. We'll also be trying to figure out what we did out there in years past that was SO offensive to all! Gees! Each year, I pay a few $100 to have a boat carry my wife and me way out in the ocean away from people to a deserted island where no one can see us, but now I'm going to be an arrested sex offender?? Wow, I'm sorry we offended so many! Its obvious that the SXM tourist industry doesn’t care about us nasty, naked, disgusting tourists that absolutely ruined SXM and, God forbid, Tintamere. At least without us, SXM will be able to revert back to its pure and all-natural state of existence. Gee, it just hit me, THAT's the point!! Otherwise, Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#37270
02/01/2015 06:16 PM
02/01/2015 06:16 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 695 Long Island, NY
timmycs
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 695
Long Island, NY
|
Carol_Hill said: I certainly would be interested in hearing the justification for this, as it makes no sense.. Yes, good point. Why? We had a September vacation in Munich, and they have a big park called the "English Garden" where you can be nude. We were on a tourists tour and nobody complained about the nude Germans.
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: Eric_Hill]
#37273
02/01/2015 06:58 PM
02/01/2015 06:58 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,160 Greensboro, NC
charlieh
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,160
Greensboro, NC
|
Interesting thread. Might look at this instead of the Super Bowl. Not a naturalist, but I found from experience that the less I wore on the beach, the more relaxed I was, so I definitely understand why those who choose nudity like it.
However, 100% of the French beaches in the world are topless, so that is always an option.
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: soualigacapt]
#37275
02/01/2015 07:49 PM
02/01/2015 07:49 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192 Columbia, SC, USA
DandM29212
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Columbia, SC, USA
|
soualigacapt said: I just find it really interesting that everyone jumps on the "someone had to complain" band wagon when that is not the case at all. The people that make the rules decide for the overall enjoyment of the majority and no one needs to complain for things to change. Everyone still says that nudity on Orient Bay has been curtailed because of complaints from cruise ship passengers, This is totally false but there is no stoping beach tourist rumors. OK, so if that's false, please enlighten us "beach tourists"! Why exactly was THAT curtailed. What was the specific motivation behind Orient and Tintamere curtailments? Government officials just decided to do something on their own? LOL!
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: soualigacapt]
#37277
02/01/2015 09:03 PM
02/01/2015 09:03 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 40 Mississippi, USA
ghjr
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 40
Mississippi, USA
|
The majority of laws of this nature that are passed in the US are typically the result lobbying sponsored by someone to gain from the change such as a charter boat captain that caters to a group that typically are not on the island because of traditional things to do, just where the boat happened to dock for a few hours...
Same as for the enforcement of existing laws...
Last edited by ghjr; 02/01/2015 09:25 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: ghjr]
#37278
02/01/2015 09:06 PM
02/01/2015 09:06 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 40 Mississippi, USA
ghjr
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 40
Mississippi, USA
|
and the supporters of the changes always have a long list of talking points to back the actions that have nothing to do with what actually influenced the change...
Last edited by ghjr; 02/01/2015 09:28 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: soualigacapt]
#37279
02/01/2015 09:07 PM
02/01/2015 09:07 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,671 Brookfield, CT.
pat
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,671
Brookfield, CT.
|
I have no horse in this race but well put, Bob, and I'm sure you're right as to who did the complaining and why.
I haven't spoken to a lot of French families regarding their viewpoints on this but I have spoken to many West Indian Dutch and Ive been told time and again many of them take great exception to the practice of public nudity and particularly the attitude that it can be done anywhere if it can be gotten away with. We have an island acquaintance who felt forced to stop going to Happy Bay with his family, a place they'd enjoyed for generations, because he didn't feel comfortable bringing his family there and putting up with the antics they'd witnessed too many times over the recent years since it's more widespread discovery.
We don't always like the rules but we still have to respect and play by them. As visitors, it's not up to us to decide what is and what isn't acceptable or tolerated but to appreciate what we have and enjoy it as we can.
As one who knew Orient 'back in the day........' that would be the day when there was no development at all, few people to be seen and difficult roads to navigate to find and get to the area in the first place, sometimes you just have to accept that time brings change, and sometimes lots of it, so appreciate and enjoy what you have while you have it. And if the changes make the island intolerable or unenjoyable for your personal comfort zone, only you can make the choice to move on, but I feel pretty comfortable in saying for each and every one of us who decides to move on down the road, there will be five more coming to take our places. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
Respectfully,
pat
"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them."
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: ghjr]
#37281
02/01/2015 09:53 PM
02/01/2015 09:53 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631 Oyster Pond St. Martin
soualigacapt
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
|
ghjr said: The majority of laws of this nature that are passed in the US are typically the result lobbying sponsored by someone to gain from the change such as a charter boat captain that caters to a group that typically are not on the island because of traditional things to do, just where the boat happened to dock for a few hours...
Same as for the enforcement of existing laws... I have no idea what you are trying to say but if it implies that I personally had anything to do with the changes or if I am going to benefit from the changes, you are really sorely mistaken. The first I heard about this change is right here. Nudity or not on Tintemarre, my business is not affected.
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: irish1223]
#37282
02/01/2015 10:46 PM
02/01/2015 10:46 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,296 Sunny Isles Beach, FL
pasnyder
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,296
Sunny Isles Beach, FL
|
It's really too bad. Slowly the tourists that have enjoyed the ability to be nude while vacationing on SXM for so many years will stop coming.
We are the People our parents warned us about!
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: pasnyder]
#37283
02/01/2015 11:19 PM
02/01/2015 11:19 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 311
daveb7
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 311
|
pasnyder said: It's really too bad. Slowly the tourists that have enjoyed the ability to be nude while vacationing on SXM for so many years will stop coming. Cuba has 4 resorts on two islands that have designated clothing optional sections on their beaches, spectacular beaches. They also all offer clothing optional catamaran charters through guest services at those resorts. Bad decisions and the end of the US embargo could hurt Saint Martin's tourism industry.
|
|
|
Re: Calm down people, please
[Re: soualigacapt]
#37286
02/02/2015 12:08 AM
02/02/2015 12:08 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,623 originally Long Island, NY/now...
irish1223
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,623
originally Long Island, NY/now...
|
soualigacapt said:
Before the Natural Reserve was established, there was no rules at Tintemarre and it was little used. As use increased the Natural Reserve was put in charge of protecting the island and make sure it stayed pristine and useful to the majority people visiting. Before there were no turtles to be seen at Tintemarre. The grass beds were destroyed by anchors from yachts and the area where the mud was made was being exploited to unbelievable proportions.( the mud baths were stopped because people were getting sick from the mud!) The Nature Reserve has turned things around and now there are 100's of turtles to see and more every year. The grass beds are coming back well and the area where the mud was is healing and boats with more than 28 passengers are banned. These are good things and I commend them for doing what they do. All the boat operators pay a fee of 1.52 Euros per passenger to be able to use the Natural Reserve and this is money well spent to keep the place pristine. I understand that nudity does not affect the natural stability of the island but it does affect the general free use and enjoyment by the majority of visitors. Unfortunately things change and you have to too. And this has what to do with nudity? The turtles don't like nudists? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, I can understand the mud baths, but the rest is nonsense. Before all the others started coming there, the 'majority' of tourists to Tintemarre were nudists. And they certainly never set out to restrict the general free use and enjoyment of textile visitors. It seems it was actually the other way around. And the answer to 'why'? still hasn't been given by anyone, other than speculation.
Robin & Ed
One’s destination is never a place, but a new way of seeing things. - Henry Miller
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: daveb7]
#37287
02/02/2015 10:45 AM
02/02/2015 10:45 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 734
lcote
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 734
|
daveb7 said:pasnyder said: It's really too bad. Slowly the tourists that have enjoyed the ability to be nude while vacationing on SXM for so many years will stop coming. Cuba has 4 resorts on two islands that have designated clothing optional sections on their beaches, spectacular beaches. They also all offer clothing optional catamaran charters through guest services at those resorts. Bad decisions and the end of the US embargo could hurt Saint Martin's tourism industry. Isn't it ALSO possible that diminished nudity could also HELP the St Martin tourist economy? It's possible people have avoided the island to avoid the nudity that is there. Read this thread on this board and it has been discussed that nudity is illegal on the Dutch side and yet the laws are flouted and ignored and nudity still occurs.
|
|
|
Re: END OF AN ERA
[Re: daveb7]
#37292
02/02/2015 12:36 PM
02/02/2015 12:36 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 734
lcote
Traveler
|
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 734
|
daveb7 said: Quote from lcote- "Isn't it ALSO possible that diminished nudity could also HELP the St Martin tourist economy? It's possible people have avoided the island to avoid the nudity that is there."
There are 37 beaches on the Dutch and French side of Saint Martin. If a visitor wants to "avoid the nudity" they have many options to do so. Ah yes. Easy. Let's see...stay on the Dutch side. Oh no. That doesn't work because well it is just "expected" that there can be nudity on Cupecoy. Easy. Yes, because nudity is only allowed at the Club Orient Beach. Oh wait, no THAT doesn't work either. Because it is also "expected" on Baie Rouge and Happy Bay. Oh yeah and Tintamarre too. Have I missed ANYWHERE ELSE? It's not that easy to navigate just WHERE people CHOOSE to flout the rules and go walking around naked. It's not. And I have been going to St Maarten for 10+ years and each year, I learn where ELSE I shouldn't go if I don't want to see nudity. I don't really CARE if I see it to be honest. But others MAY. And frankly, if someone is simply sunbathing nude, I probably wouldn't even notice. But I WILL NEVER be able to get the memory of the short heavy guy POWER WALKING nude down the beach at Orient Beach my first trip to St Maarten. And I gotta tell you, I'd really LIKE to get that memory gone.
|
|
|
|