TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin END OF AN ERA

The end of an era….The Government of Saint-Martin has decreed Arrete no001-06 no more nudity on Tintamarre. On our last cruise to Tintamarre Capt Philippe was approached by the Reserve Naturel and told no more nudity on Tintamarre. On the boat and around in the water ok..but a swimsuit or pareo to stroll the beach… we hope that Club O can convince them to grant an excemption for TIKO TIKO on the grounds of acquired rights over 16years…

Wow. Now that's sad..

I know I know....first the mud baths now this....

Do you think it will also apply to Green Cay? Isn't it part of the reserve also?

Very sad indeed ......... had some fabulous trips on TIKO TIKO to Tintamarre. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Green Cay is part of the Reserve.

So pointless...

Possibly a change to Happy Bay could be done?

This does not Bode well for Phillip.
What the hell could they be thinking?

BobandJeana

What a shame! We have some great memories of our trips to Tintamarre on the Tiko Tiko. Seems so pointless to do this. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />

Very sad news. We loved our Tiko Tiko cruises to Tintemarre. Hopefully, they'll change their minds. But, for now, one must wonder what's next. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />

I certainly would be interested in hearing the justification for this, as it makes no sense..

Perhaps people on other boats who go there for excursions were complaining. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease! It was families on Disney cruise ships that complained about nudity at Orient Beach and look what happened there.

We're staying at Clubo in March. Planning on doing the Tiko Tiko (again). Hopefully Philippe will have alternatives to
Tintamarre. Have thoroughly enjoyed prior trips.

No, I highly doubt it, the 9 boats we work with, none of us have complained, Bob knows Captain Phillipe personally so please don't include us.

Orient Beach was more about local French families complaint from what I have been told.

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Yes, that's what we were told too.

I never said the boat captains complained. I said the [color:"blue"]people[/color], meaning passengers on the boats complained.I am certain the captains would not complain; sorry if you read this wrong. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Cruise ship people haven't any control over excursions not sold on the ship, the excursion to Tintamarre is sold mainly through private companies like ours through the internet, the passengers would complain to Bob not to the ship. And Bob has never complained to anyone.
He also explains to families when they ask about topless on the beaches, that you are in a foreign country, the adults are more concerned than the children & most clients from cruise ships still book the excursion.
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So Lyn, do you have a theory as to why this action was taken?

We were as surprised as you to see the post, for now there will only be second hand information swirling. We don't want want to be included in any misinformation. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

And Carol, I highly doubt the French Reserve or whoever else is involved gives any thought about cruise ship people's concerns. Believe me.

I have to say I am not a nudist and have no interest but this is very sad to me. This is very much a part of what st. Maarten is about and I have always loved that aspect of being there that you accept everyone as long as they are hurting no one. Very sad indeed! Further trying o sterilize our world

Not that I am into nudism or naturism, but I find it ironic, to say the least, that "Naturism" is prohibited in a "Natural" Reserve...
However, to answer Carol's question, this action was taken in the pure line of government policies about nudity in "public". The Reserve Naturelle is turning as a bunch of obsessed people about regulations... They are evicting "Tropical Wave" from the Galion, evicting "Butterfly Farms" (which BTW was stupidly fined last week for not have special license and permit to handle "wild animals" (no kidding...), they are taking a bunch of action to sit their "new" authority recognized by the Government.. I am totally for protection of Nature, and I certainly do not want the French side to become a concrete jungle like the Dutch side, I am condoning protection and reservation of nature, but IMHO there are some limit to the stupidity of the action taken to achieve this goal! stupid, scilly and sad

Here is another example of government interfering with normal business and practices.

The other day I was approached by Dutch side immigration officers and questioned about what we do. I told them we have snorkeling excursions to the French side,. I was told that I now have to pass through immigration clearance in and out of the dutch side and pay a government fee to go to the French side. This is totally ridiculous and is totally against the treaty of Concordia signed in 1648 between the Dutch and French side guaranteeing free passage between the French and Dutch sides. I told the officers this but they were adamant that this is the law . I told them that we are no different than a taxi taking someone from the dutch side to the French side but they insisted they are right. If they push the issue I'm getting a lawyer! Obviously no one knows what they are doing or saying.

I wonder how the Govt can enforce the nudity ban on an uninhabited deserted Island. Are the Gendarmes going to make routine patrols by boat to check??? They cannot possibly have the manpower or resources to monitor the activity on Tintamarre. If they have the extra manpower to do this, wouldn't it be better spent targeting the robberies and auto burglaries that are happening?
Unless they act on a complaint of a passing boat, I just don't see how this could happen. When looking at Tintamarre from Orient Beach, you can't even see someone on the Beach much less if they are wearing a bathing suit or not.

Sad sad sad

Not only Gendarmes (which BTW have a marine patrol) can give fines for this kind of issues, but the Reserve Naturelle's Officers (equivalent to "Park Rangers") which are paid for that, beside more, by the organisation : "monitoring activities within the Natural Reserve"
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@soualigacapt Back in Oct. there was this thread Parliament Member Responds to French Border Issues in which trouble was apparently brewing with the borders... maybe negotiations haven't been going so well... putting you in the middle!

Ok, now what can we do about it as he economic engine, this must stop! I am willing to do whatever I can if there are viable options!

Stupid and unenforceable. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

How does this action preserve nature???<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />
Time for the government to deal with the more serious issues on the island. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
Hope common sense eventually prevails.

If you want to be nude in public why not just stick to Club Orient since it is really the only approved legal beach to be totally nude in St Martin. Tintamarre is visited by many fully clothed boat excursions and total nudity isn't always appropriate nor appreciated by many visitors. Same as walking down Orient Beach off the Club O boundary. Why force this life style on another beach frequented by fully clothed people when you know it's not acceptable, legal or appreciated. Personally I can care less if nudes are walking around but I can see others viewpoints that don't want it.

I have no clue about any political decision on the nudity ban at Tintamarre between the Reserve Naturelle and the government. Since the Reserve fosters people appreciation and use when environmental protection allows, it would be good to let the Reserve folks know your interest and request their support in having the government ban rescinded. Director of the Reserve… [email]nicolas.maslach@rnsm.org.[/email] If you are at SXM, stop by their office at Anse Marcel. The Reserve Naturelle deserves everyone’s support; the government with this decision? … Jim

Force nude lifesyle, what are you talking about. It has been commonly accepted there for 20+ years. I don't get this whole nude being upset thing. So if a women or man wear the smallest of thongs and go topless it's OK. Tell the people before they visit that they may encounter nude people and let them decide if they want to visit there.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

You got that right! They couldn't care less. This being said, I'd like to know the reason. It makes no sense whatsoever.

On first take, your comment seems to make sense. However, St Martin in known for allowing nudity in certain area's and beaches, most people understand and accept it. To change the policy now will only hurt tourism. For those who are offended, I suggest they go to those area's that fit their style, rather then expected others to adjust to theirs.

The Reserve patrol every day and the other forces occasionally...and I have posted a photo taken an hour ago on Tintamarre of the official sign on our facebook page...

I don't know the full history of all this so maybe I'm off base but I was under the impression that the Club O beach was the only place where full nudity was officially allowed. I thought that in all the other places it pops up, it was merely tolerated and you were subject to being told to cover up at any time. Is that true?

If so, then it looks like they are simply enforcing the rules that are already in place. Look at this this way. Say I'm a tourist who decides to avoid the full nudity of Club O because it goes against my morals or whatever. So, I decide to go to Tintamarre. But, much to my surprise, there are nudies there! Isn't that against the law? Aren't they supposed to keep it to the Club O beach. What? I should have somehow just known that they allow it there? WTF? Now my kids are scarred for life. :-)

The argument that "it's always been tolerated" holds some weight but it would always be trumped by the actual laws in any debate wouldn't it? I also think it's a bit of a stretch to presume that the tourists will stop coming if they ban nudity.

I don't care one way or the other frankly.

Unless they ban toplessness... *That* would be cause for a revolution!!

For something that was decreed just yesterday, it didn't take long for a fancy sign to get dragged across the bay and planted in the sand! Whatever happened to Island Time?
Tiko-Tiko's - Tintamarre Sign Photo

Scarred for life because a kid saw a nude person..are you kidding? Are any of those same kids playing violent video games, sexting, or seeing Viagra commercials or just watching the violent news. Kids are not scarred by nudity and usually within a few seconds totally ignore it. It would not be a surprise to visit location where there is nudity as you would be forewarned..

Tintamarre is uninhabited, nudity has always been practiced there. There are no 'residents' to offend. For years, Tiko was the only boat that went there. Nudity or not has NO effect on maintaining the 'natural' state of the island. Ban boats from going there, or making campfires or whatever, or other things that actually have some EFFECT on the balance of nature. Banning nudity there is just plain government meanness, for no real purpose.