TravelTalkOnline Forums People Talk Caravanserai Now Alegria Caravanserai now Alegria

If you read the RCI Disclosure Document it may be that RCI suspended its program at Caravanserai because of the foreclosure. Just a thought.

22. Withdrawal of Benefits Due To Condition or
Conduct of Resort.
RCI may withdraw any or all benefits from the Program.
[color:"red"]iii. the Resort or other Inventory provider is the
subject of a foreclosure suit, or the subject of a motion or
other proceeding to place it under the control of a
receiver, mortgagee in possession or bankruptcy trustee;[/color][/color]

But the same people acting as endless vacation last year selling timeshares were the same people there last month. And according to RcI as of today I am confirmed for 2 weeks at Caravanserai for next summer. I confirmed those last month after the auction. So RcI has still been acting as if they have a relationship with Caravanserai and they got my booking fees for confirming my unit. So if they knew of the problem and continued to allow bookings at caravanserai that is not ok.

What A Mess!!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

There is three units up for sale on Ebay if anybody is interested!

It is a mess, and has been a mess for a few years. I hope this week something positive breaks. It really could be a great resort.

Cheers,
Todd

I don't know if yesterday's editorial in The Daily Herald was posted but here it is:

Alegria

...and another one from today's Herald: Alegria #2

I like the last paragraph of the article. Hopefully the PTB pay attention.

"It's been said before: "The Friendly Island" must be very careful about the message it is sending to both existing and potential clients as a place where one can invest safely. After problems at several other resorts in recent years the destination can ill afford that these types of undesirable situations keep occurring."

How do you get into this group? Would love to be part of the discussion. Per the news article "A designated FaceBook community page was established the next day "to compare notes and help each other during the coming transition."

The Facebook page is called caravanseraitimeshareowners. All one word. I found it on Jeff Bergers Facebook page or just search Facebook with that long name.

I don't have an axe to grind in this issue and to no one in particular, I did want to make a couple of comments. First, I know absolutely nothing about standard timeshare agreements, but I would expect there to be a "successors and assigns" provision in the contract. If so, then Alegria would be bound by that provision to honor the pre-existing agreements. If not, then all bets are off.
Second, I believe it was Sharon who stated that Alegria way overpaid for the property. Given all the entanglements surrounding the operation of the resort and its continued sustainability, I would agree...UNLESS Alegria in its due diligence determined that their was no enforceable survivorship of rights and/or entered into some sort of "understanding" with the government.
Third, had Scotiabank failed to find a buyer, as badly and unprofitably as the resort had been operated by Kildare, it was destined to eventually fail altogether and be shut down permanently to the detriment of all parties involved. So the real question becomes whether or not the island is better served having a new owner to possibly realize the propert's potential, or have a white elephant to sit and decay.
Personally, with an investment of $14 million, I hope Alegria succeeds (even though I hate the name) and becomes one of the gems of the island, attracting old and new visitors alike. To the t/s "owners", I think you each individually have to decide at what point do you stop throwing good money after bad. There have always been to be more red flags with this property than a Soviet parade, so when do you just admit it was a bad investment and finally walk away?
I await your slings and arrows.

You all have the power to get this changed. BOYCOTT the new place, don't pay them another dime, blast them on Hotels.com, expedia, priceline, orbitz and especially Facebook..Better yet have your Facebook group contact these major online reservations services not to accept taking reservations to Alegria..

Bwahahaha!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" />

I get that it is easy to say the signs were there but every time someone stayed at Caravanserai they were corralled into meetings in which they were assured that the resort was going to be sold at auction and that timeshares would be honored by whoever bought the building as a condition of purchase. If the bank continued running the Caravanserai and soliciting upgrades and commitments or even giving general reassurances then there is a whole lot more at play here. If the timeshares were not permissible sales then the second the bank got the financials on foreclosure proceedings why didn't the bank post notice of the violation and direct it's representatives pending sale that timeshare reservations were not valid and should not be honored. Did they accept funds from Caravanserai that were secured through timeshare sales/reservations? As it was, it seems the bank or it's agent continued to allow the same people who sold the timeshares to keep offices at the resort and hold timeshare owners meetings etc. And they charged timeshare taxes and honored RcI reservations s well as in house timeshare bookings. This was occurring between the auction dates. It seems they were trying bring in as many timeshare dollars as possible before cutting people off at the knees.

The Lessor Guarantee transfer language reads:"The Lessee will not be disturbed in case of a transfer of the real property to a third party"
Would not use slings or arrows on people trying to help.

Count me in on any timeshare owner action to retrieve our investment and rights to Caravanserai. What a mess!

I agree that there are many culpable parties in this situation: Kildare and Manek, Scotiabank, RCI, and Endless Vacations. But those that purchased during the past couple of years must bear their share of the burden as well. They may have been corralled and high-pressured, but they were not held captive and had the option to say no thanks. Caveat emptor is more than just an expression, it is a business principle that requires one to protect oneself, preferably in writing. Generally most contracts also contain an "Entire Agreement" clause that states all the terms and conditions of the agreement are contained therein, and no other verbal promises or guarantees are part of or are enforcable under the contract.
I stop short of including Ray Sidhom on that list because I don't know what was involved in the negotiations and what assurances he was given. Depending on the result of any any litigation and/or social media smear campaigns as suggested, he may end up becoming another victim as well.
Like I said in my earlier post, to me everything hinges on how the original contract's somewhat loosely worded "successors and assigns" provision (as shown in BobDot's post) is interpreted by the courts.

I do not know if you had any investment in Caravanserai but I highly doubt it. You must be quite smug while you determine that people should just walk away from a huge investment without no recourse. If this happened in the U.S. or Canada, Alegria would be in motions court within a week and a restraining order would be placed on their operations. If you know so much about St. Maarten's laws, inform us all or keep your opinion to yourself about that "everyone should just walk away." I wish I could do business with you in North America. You would not last with that attitude <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Sorry but certain things in life are better to just walk away from versus throwing good money after bad.

The transactions were made in SXM and have nothing to do with US or Canadian law.

The poster was just trying to help and made a VERY valid point and post.

No need to attack the messenger. BTW, I believe "VitaMan" is an actual property owner (not a timeshare "owner") on the island and probably knows a thing or two about what they are saying.

Go to Caravanseraitimeshareowners ..one word... on Facebook

But sometimes walking away allows other people to be hurt in the same way because nobody stood up for what was right. Sometimes it's not about the money. Sometimes it is about doing what is right even if it cost you. Standing up against this might get some publicity and negativity directed towards whoever decided to hurt the timeshare owners, and maybe people in the future will not have this happen to them. To paraphrase Edmund Burke, the surest way for evil to survive is for good people to stand by and do nothing.

I feel that if everyone just "walks away" it will set a precedent for all other similar resorts to do the same...this is assuming that you actually liked the resort in the first place...I thought it had a great location and potential

That said I do not have a stake in this resort but I do at SBR...where there was a sale but no loss of "owners" vacation rights

I responded to their email letter and told them that I REFUSE this insulting offer and that a buyout of my unit for what I paid back in 2006 pre construction is what I want. Will see where that gets me.

Thanks, but I don't have a dog in this fight other than attempting to monitor and moderate what goes on here on TTOL.

Currently there is much more discussion going on here regarding the situation than on a facebook page that was started yesterday.

Good luck to those involved.

Agree! Very well stated.

Sorry, mecs, did not really intend to direct to you, but to everybody that has interest in this subjet. So am looking for a "spokes person" for lack of a better term?

If there is interest, we can set up a seperate forum to help, or at least communicate. Would the t/s owner be supportive of that??

Yes, it would be available to all (not that their are not other options, but lets go with that at this point in time). Just making an offer, that is all.

Let me know, or who ever might be interested, but it does have to be civil to some extent, is that acceptable?

Send me a PM or maybe better yet an email, use the contact us at the bottom of the page. There are options for this type of thing, so yes, can it be done, yes absolutely!

Let me know if you and the various owners are interested. Not saying you are in charge at all, just that the offer is there. Do not have any idea where it might go and I/we do not have a stake in the issue, just making resources available in this particular situation.

Ouch! You pierced me straight to the heart. I have actually done a lot of business over a lot of years (more than I care to admit) in North America and somehow managed to come out whole. I learned a lot of lessons along the way, and some of them I learned the hard way. I'm not an attorney and have no expertise in St. Maarten law, but I've had experience writing a lot of contracts over the years, so I do know a thing or two about legal constructs. I've even fought the good fight in court on occasion. I haven't "detemined" that anyone should just walk away, although many have already done so. I simply asked that you consider at what point do you finally decide to walk away from a bad investment.
So I'm just trying to pass on my insights from my own experience. I surely do understand the urge to fight this. But my point is at what cost? When is a win a win? To paraphrase a former President, it depends on what definition of 'win' is. After months or even years of struggle, you might win a battle only to discover that you and everyone else involved losses the war in the long run. One of the points of my post was that Kildare ran the resort into the ground to the point of threatening its continued existance. My question is how is beating up on Alegria, who has invested a lot of money into turning the situation around, going to make things any better.
The way I see it, they have made a first step proposal that is, I'm guessing, one they feel in their minds is a reasonable and good faith offer. So here's what I would suggest. Instead of starting a fight that no one can possibly win, why not select of delegation of Caravanserai t/s "owners" and meet with representatives of Alegria to 1) hear their side of the story, 2) air your grievances to them, and 3) see what common ground exists between you or can be negotiated. Compromise would certainly be more satisfactory than the risk of losing everything, and a whole lot less expensive at the same time.
Peace.

Thank you, again.

Messengers often get shot, I know I have BUT - I called "Caravhell" today and inquired about 3 weeks booked with RCI for late Oct & Nov. ($199 per week) - I was told "you better call the manager to see if they are still good". Tried to no avail. Called RCI, they promised to call me back today and so far NO RESPONSE. $600 rental fee for 3 weeks is a joke so I really do not have a dog in this fight, but I do have another TS so I feel your pain. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Sick.gif" alt="" />

I am not sure if it makes a difference or not...but the sale at SBR(Pelican) was a sale to keep the place a timeshare resort. It sounds like Alegria is NOT PLANNING to have any timeshares...that they just want a resort hotel. I have not noticed if any of the ''owners'' at Caravesnerai has checked their agreements to see how it was stated on their agreements. Sounds like the courts will be pretty busy in the next few months.

Playing devil's advocate....but i am assuming....and i hate using that word...that the contract you made or preconstruction back in 2006, was payable to the old ownership, and this new ownership did not receive one nickel of the price, and will probably not give a rat's [censored] about your complaint. They didn't see any money in their pockets...so probably the one to demand money back from would be Manek and company...and we all know what that will get you.

As others have stated...this new ownership overpaid for the property as is....and sure not going to payback owners monies that they never realized in the first place. Again...i am assuming that this would be the case...i may be wrong.

On a different note. If anyone remembers Tony Narducci one of the salesmen at Caravansari before all the [censored] hit the fan is very ill. He has pancreatic cancer and is in Colombia for treatment. He was up to recently working the activities desk at the Royal Islander.

He actually quit caravansary when the plan was unveiled to knock down the resort and resell it. He smelled funny fish!

I'm sure that those that remember him will wish him a speedy recovery and better heath.

That is so sad about Tony. The same disease that Ray had and both were Caravanserai salesmen. Tragic coincidence. I hope that he wins his battle.

Very good response, VitaMan.

Sometimes I can be a hothead and particularly so when someone's being taken advantage of (and even more so yet when that 'someone' is ME.....) as is so very much the case here with this whole mess, so I'm sure my first inclination is to want to fight it.

But then the realist in me takes over and I start thinking about how much the good fight might cost in the end, since like so many others here, I clearly remember all the ups and downs at the Pelican/Simpson Bay Resort, along with the other faces of Caravanserai and lastly, the years long saga of the Mullet Bay Resort fiasco before the settlement was finally reached in the unit owners favor, and yes, I do understand the situation there was different and we weren't talking timeshares but a lot of people spent thousands to fight the good fight, taking on all the different entities involved. And many of those owners ended up dropping out because of the very high cost of fighting the good fight when they realized how much the fight was costing them.

If you can afford the fight, Amen, go for it and take a stand for the principle but I'm betting it's going to cost a lot of money to straighten this mess out, and when all is said and done, the good guys could still lose in the end.

I truly hope that isn't the case but just remember, it could be. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Rci is still offering exchange and extra vacations at Caravanserai....Where as Sapphire is not available ....Looks like the beginning of the end ....This gov't needs a lesson or two on how best to run a country101 .

From my recollection, Caravanserai had major damage from Hurricane Lenny, just when it was about to reopen in 1999. And for the last 15 years I recall reading about all the great plans that never seemed to come to fruition. I sure hope the people that invested for all of these years can get something back. Never had a good feeling about the place after seeing what Lenny did to it. Good luck to all...
Happy Travels <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I am here this week and next at Caravansarai, having bought the two weeks back in June for $200 per week. Not sure about the end of the month or November, but my room was here as promised. I feel relatively sure that RCI will honor your previously purchased weeks even if they have to relocate you to another timeshare. Here's hoping I don't get kicked out after this week.

What are people doing that have reservations in the near future. We are coming down weeks 51 and 52 and have THREE units! There is a total of TWELVE people staying at the resort. Is it their intension on only using the "hotel" or will they be using the timeshare units to house people. All the tickets were bought at the highest prices ever. This is the busiest time of year and I'm sure options are minimal. Looks like there are no answers coming from the resort.

There have been a few articles/editorials in The Daily Herald discussing the Caravanserai/Alegria situation in the past couple of days.

Becky - Are any of the old staff members still there? Have you seen Ozzie at the front desk?

I hope you have a good holiday despite all the upheaval.

I see that RCI is still showing many units available for exchange. One unit with a check-in of Oct 18th and then lots beginning March 21st and running through June. From this I would GUESS that confirmed exchanges shouldn't be an issue, but if it were me I'd continue to try to get confirmation from RCI on that.

Looks like there was a meeting with Ted Richardson and the St. Maarten Timeshare Association. He agreed to invite both Scotiabank and Alegria to discuss how they can come to a resolution on this issue without involving the courts. No details on when that meeting will be held though.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/index.php?...s&Itemid=54

Also, the story at TodaySXM, said the following:

Alegria’s argument that Caravanserai was not allowed to sell timeshare without written permission from Scotia Bank will not hold up. An anonymous source told this newspaper last night that Scotia Bank was full well informed about the activities at the resort.

http://www.todaysxm.com/2014/10/07/timeshare-association-comes-to-the-rescue-at-caravanserai/