TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands BVI Impounding boats

Sounds like the sailors were held hostage until they paid the fine and signed an admission of guilt. No way it gets reduced now.

If you were out for a "day sail" from St Thomas to Francis Bay and take some long upwind tacks, then in just 15 minutes it's very easy to stray 2+ miles into BVI waters - while still remaining well outside their 'Exclusion Zone' - as you head towards Little Tobago and Great Tobago Islands before tacking back toward St John. I could see how one could let it happen if you weren't aware of the BVI territorial waters lockdown, or perhaps thought that the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS) permitting Innocent Passage in territorial seas still prevailed.

I was sailing in the USVI's for three weeks from mid-Oct to early-Nov, and ventured over the border by a hundred yards or so on a couple of upwind and downwind tacks. However, I was very conscious of the 'surveillance' vessel (i.e. inter-island barge) anchored off Great Thatch Island as well as the British frigate observed on several occasions patrolling the waters between Norman Island and St John. I did not try to push my luck or get into a UNCLOS dispute with a BVI border patrol.

Perhaps it is old school
;[with all the electronics on board these days] but maybe calling on channel 16 announcing your intentions and need to possibly tack/travel through
a part of the exclusion zone as innocent passage under sail could avoid the detention and impoundment?

Well it is interesting how other countries deal with these sorts of issues. Back in April of this year we were in Sidney BC Canada watching vessel after vessel travel from the US to Canada, flying their Q flag. The CDN/US border was and still is closed for non-essential travel due to COVID. What was interesting is that the Canadian Coast Guard would approach the US flagged vessel in Canadian waters, give them a warning and escort them back into US waters. No fines were levied, no boats were impounded, a simple warning sufficed.

I can’t imagine getting escorted back to port and going to jail and then calling your bank and asking them to wire $20,000 because you accidentally crossed the boarder in the water by two miles. It seems like the OP is just taking it in stride. It’s such an unbelievable situation.

Maybe they should have told CBP they had symptoms for covid. Would CBP really want them coming ashore at that point?

That was the part that got me...we want to protect our borders but come ashore for 27 hours and hang out...

I’m confused. The area being discussed *IS* BVI waters, right? As pointed out, Innocence Passage can be disallowed in certain special circumstances (most governments appear to agree that “pandemic” qualifies).

Sailors often say its the captain’s responsibility, That’s because it is. Remember when rules were rules and laws were laws, and most people didn’t think of reasons of why the law breaker shouldn’t be punished. If we broke the law, we knew it and knew the consequences of getting caught. Ignorance and “accidentally” were not acceptable defenses.

Five pages and most responses seem to defend the boat captains; few “captains responsibility”. The consequences for the BVis may be worse than the punishment they are giving, but I’m not apt to defend the boat captains.

I think in this case the exclusion zone was enacted to prevent the daily smuggling coming in from STT. A sailboat tacking to lay the entrance into Francis Bay is a less than zero pandemic or smuggling threat. It’s like being fined 1000 dollars for being 1 MPH over the speed limit. Illegal, but not reasonable. The punishment should fit the crime.
G

Smuggling from St Thomas ? -- Kmart,CostUless and Home Depot -- they already had 2.5 Tons of Cocaine in Tortola!
Reminds me of a family sail to St Barths - middle of Anegada Passage - stopped,boarded and searched by USCG -- my young daughter looked the officer in the eye and said"People don't smuggle things INTO St Marteen"

They should consider themselves lucky they weren't forced to quarantine at their own cost for 14 days, tested, and then released. The original cost of quarantine for non-belongers was in the $7k each range for security, lodging, and food.

It’s called extortion.

According to this news article, the BVI are holding US citizens at this time.
https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your...ister-detained-in-british-virgin-islands

Wow, that's bad. Just bad.

Wow!

That is extreme and looks poorly on the BVI government. It makes my heart hurt for the locals.

Makes my heart hurt for the people who have been detained for 8 days.....

Such bad PR. So legally the boat captain brought the boat into BVI waters, but he has no money and the 2 older couples probably had no clue as to the location of the line between the 2 countries but they are being pressured into paying money to get released.. Full scale war between USA and BVI will not end well. Bring in the Navy seals to settle the score.

pathetic-

I am a big believer in Hanlon's Razor and believe that is what is happening here. Regardless, this is a terrible situation for those "incarcerated" and for the BVI in terms of public relations. But it certainly reinforces my decision to relocate my boat after almost 20 years in the BVI...

One wonders, is there an email address that US tourists could send an email to, to protest this?

Had to look that one up: Hanlon's razor, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

Sorry, I should have added that to my post; I'm so used to using it that I neglected to think of explaining

When I clicked on it, there was a link. Very apropos here.

Its a good one, and I agree there's a bit of that in play here. But, clearly not the whole story. There are extreme times for everyone, including and especially the people of the BVI. Lots of frustration and acting out. For me, I'm going to wait until Hurricane 'Rona blows over before making any decisions on moving our boat.😎

A long long time ago
I can still remember how
That sailing died how it used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while

But November made me shiver
With every post that gets delivered
Bad news on the internet
I couldn't take one more step

I can't remember if I cried
When I read about his widowed bride
Something touched me deep inside
The day the sailing died

I'm a bit confused as to why you quoted "American Pie" - I can't see the connection here.

Zanshin--seems pretty clear to me...

I changed the words a wee bit.

I wonder how much of this is because the government is desperately short of cash?

When they seized the boat, did the leader of the boarders say, "Aargh! Either join me crew or walk the plank?" Because it kinda looks like that type of scenario to me.

"As soon as I realized that I had tacked too far, I found myself off the pirate coast of Somalia!"

I prefer "Occam's razor"....the simplest solution is usually the correct one

I would imagine BVI got tired of people not respecting the exclusion zone and found a few boats to make an example of to deter others.

At the end of the video the woman indicates 1 of the crew was supposed to be in quarantine in PR yet went out on the boat...

Regardless people tacking through th channel in no way or form can contaminate the citizens of the BVI.

This is a very serious issue so the stupid jokes are not appreciated. All one has to do, if you're not familiar with the waters which my husband is, is look at the map of St. John and the BVI, and according to the explanation by the passengers they were sailing from Maho Bay on St. John to Watermelon Cay, also on St. John. They had to sail around Mary Point, which depending on the wind, could slightly take them into BVI territorial waters inadvertently.

Agree...but once they dragged them to shore (which I don't think was the best idea) and found out they are probably making them all quarantine

I am not a sailor...just a passenger so I am trying to understand what happened with the couples currently detained in BVI.

If they were traveling from Maho to Watermelon around Mary's Point and were stopped 1.5 miles into BVI waters, where were they? The map seems to show less than a mile of distance between Mary's Point and BVI land. Would they tack way over and then tack back? 1.5 miles would be quite a ways into BVI territory.

Dept of State Travel Advisory for the BVI
Level 3 – Reconsider Travel: Avoid travel due to serious risks to safety and security. The Department of State provides additional advice for travelers in these areas in the Travel Advisory.

I doubt they had many people violating the exclusion zone in sailboats. Regardless a 500 or 1000 dollar fine would be sufficient. A daytime exclusion zone serves no function at all as far as Covid. At night perhaps but it would only be people intending to go ashore and or remain illegally in the BVI that would present a problem. Mostly that would be locals shopping and avoiding import duties. I once spent the night in water lemon cay. A friend brought a handheld nightscope. It looked like a highway running from the USVI and BVI. I was surprised there were not collisions with all those boats and no lights!
G

There has been a lot of talk about the "exclusion zone". That zone is for BVI based boats in BVI waters. They closed this area to their own boats when they reopened recreational boating to people already legally in the territory. This "exclusion zone" has nothing to do with the US side of the Narrows or anything to do with US boats. They do not have the jurisdiction to exclude US boats or any other boats legally in US waters from transiting the US side of the narrows. They do have the right to close the border and the boundary. The problem with these two incidents is not that the boats were stopped. The problem is the manner in which they were handled afterward. These are not ISIS fighters invading their borders. They weren't even the belongers that smuggled in the covid infected strippers. Which caused an outbreak that forcing their whole territory to shut down. They were two recreational boats out for daysails that made a bad decision to sail across the border. In normal times both of these incursions would have been considered innocent passage. Measured response of a stern warning would have been appropriate. This has and will continue to be an international incident. It will affect the goodwill of our whole industry. Both US and BVI based sailing will be affected by this decision. There are no winners in this.

Seems like a money grab to me. Taking them ashore during the pandemic defies logic. It would almost make one think that the BVI doesn't want tourists to come back....ever.