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Would BoatyBall be responsible if a non charterer reserved a ball and it was taken by a chartered boat and the non chartered boat who arrived after dark had to anchor and his anchor dragged and went aground?

The terms of use on the boatyball website would lead me to say no, as they address this exact situation in at least one area, and other areas have more blanket statements that I am sure their legal team crafted in case there was an issue as you describe. Of course this doesn't mean someone wouldn't try to bring such a suit.

*I am not an attorney, and my legal advise is worth exactly the amount that was paid for it!*

Maybe the solution is to allow booking a ball a week in advance? We all know Cooper is a hot spot with limited balls and limited nearby options. Imagine being able to book a night at cooper at the start of your trip. First night you want isn't available, you can simply adjust your plans and pick a night that is. The only problem with this would be how would you handle someone cancelling or not showing up. I imagine once you get within a certain timeframe, there's no refund for cancelling. But you also can't book a ball elsewhere unless you cancel maybe?

Anyway.. seems like it could help people get to destinations they want to get to without all the fuss at 7am? I'm not sure the system truly works well though unless all balls are by reservation.

Three things would get me more onboard with boatyball. First they need to change out the current balls for balls that are not going to damage the underside of cats and second you should be able to cancel a reservation up to say 3pm as long as someone else books the ball. Third and most important they need to pledge that they will not provide priority to individuals or charter companies that pay extra.
G

I don't chime in very often on the forum, but I read most everything posted - and you all have made our family trips so much more enjoyable and easier. This is one of those times I need to say something...

If this isn't the infancy stage of airline seat selection walking on water, I don't know what it is. I was heavily involved with that in the past, and this is exactly what we did at the start.

Begin with a small number of seats (mooring balls) and see what you could get for them. Look at that, they sold out quickly. You add more...and fast. Make some seats better than others and sell them for more. Eventually, make it a standard that if you don't pay extra for your seat ahead of time, you'll have to anchor in the back near the lav with no space for your legs.

But hey, if you are a Vibranium Member and opt-in for the special offer sent through email to your frequent mooring account, you and your flotilla can grab your balls 36 hours early. More revenue from external promotions.

Don't forget the add-ons such as wi-fi, garbage collection, liquor delivery, changing location to move where you really want, all-inclusive premium dinner reservations, air tank refills, SUP delivery, taxi to Hog Heaven, etc. You name it, it can happen and will. Because the number of seats (or balls) is finite, the services must increase to make it viable.

The timing of reservations will become irrelevant. There are third-party ways around trying to login at a specific time. There was the resourceful fellow that created a system to automate the seat selection program against Southwest Airlines exactly 24 hours prior to flight departure, and would then charge his customers a premium to receive a top line boarding priority (seats on Southwest). I wonder if any coders have tried that against Boatyball? Eventually, the timing is all revenue based.

I can sincerely appreciate the idea behind it, but I don't like what I see as unavoidable disruptions in the future. We are still BVI rookies, but my family has been fortunate enough to find our paradise and we would like to keep it that way as long as our extended family will allow. That, and my wife just can't sleep if we have to anchor.

Once the number of mooring balls normalizes with the return of BEYC and Saba Rock, and further improvements to Sopers Hole, Little Harbor, Trellis and Marina Cay, among other places, the frantic race for mooring balls will lessen and the appeal of Boatyball may wane. Right now there are too many boats competing for too few balls. This is creating panic in those charterers that can't or won't anchor. There is money to be made by the BEYC and Saba folks if they got some of their balls on line. Pre-Irma I don't recall the North Sound mooring fields ever being completely full.

The race is on to convert many more balls before beyc and Saba are back.
Convert to bb at white bay and great harbour too. It’s only a matter of time and we will all pay more for it.
I agree with MarkMN.

Speaking of North Sound moorings/anchorages. Looking at anchoring in Robins Bay or off Vixen Pt. However, doesn't Vixen Pt have moorings? Or are they in bad shape?

Along those lines, whats wrong with the Saba/BEYC moorings? Are the pennants removed, or just in a bad/unmaintained state?

We used the BEYC moorings last year. They had the pennants removed and the ring on the top taped up...neither of which was too hard to get around by encouraging Mrs Christo into the dinghy with a knife between her teeth and the dinghy tied to the bow cleat prior to approaching the ball. We subsequently helped out one of the guys we knew who was working on the rubble at BEYC by giving him a lift (Bacchus, i'm sure others on here know him well!)...he had no issues with us using the ball and didn't seem to understand why they were taped up.

...obviously we were aware that it was at our own risk. After carrying out our own inspection we were happy to use it.

A year later...I don't know. We will probably anchor in Prickly Bay.

Me too...

That's what I figured - thanks for the confirmation!

Anyone know the status of the 12-15 balls in front of The Fat Virgin in Biras Creek?

We understood that they had not been maintained for quite a while even pre-Irma (following the closure of Biras I think) and were risky to use even back in 2017...when we were last there in 2018 I recall one of them had an upside-down half sunken powerboat tied to it.

Unless anything has changed...our advice would be to stay clear of them!

Just back from the islands and thought I'd weigh in the BoatyBall thing (trip report at a later date). First, I'm not a fan of the idea. In my view the BoatyBalls have created an artificial demand for Cooper (you always want what you can't have?). I like Cooper fine, and it's always been a nice place for a sundowner and a quiet night aboard, but I don't count it a "must" stop or even necessarily in my top 50% - your mileage may vary. All the angst and hassle over getting a ball there seems misplaced to me.

Anyway, I got online one morning, had the BB site loaded and BINGO there were moorings available at Cooper! I clicked on one I thought would be in less demand (outside row) and got to the "Reserve" page. Clicked the "Reserve" button and... ugh, "This mooring had already been reserved"! He with the fastest internet wins, and that wasn't me!

Long story short, we had a beautiful sail that day, and a perfectly fine (better?) evening on the hook at Marina Cay. I would not have traded it for a mooring reservation at Cooper in a million years!

Cooper has been pretty popular post Irma before boatyball...I think the loss of North Sound moorings and other places have increased the demand for Cooper.

Your issue with trying to pick a mooring is the same one I mentioned earlier. If you click on an open ball then it should it lock out all others on that ball or be shaded already immediately. Its too much of a coincidence that you click on one and someone is doing it at the exact same split second instant even at 700. I believe there is a delay in graying the icon out which is why I recommended to BB that you pick the mooring field in general and then are assigned a ball. I do respect the dissenting view that some may want to choose a mooring but I would expect the majority of boaters would appreciate any ball with less hassle.

They are slated to add another 40 balls I read...

Add or convert existing balls??

Bad news. Another 40 where?

This could be the additional BoatyBalls. Taken from BoatyBall website:

"First Come First Serve
FCFS mooring balls are coming later in 2019.

These mooring balls will be white with our orange logo. FCFS moorings are exactly that - If you tie up to the mooring first, it is your mooring for as long as you wish to stay on it. This is the traditional method used throughout the BVI’s. The only difference is you can pay for each nights stay via the App. No need to carry cash or wait on a tender to arrive to collect money for the mooring.

Tip & Precautions: Not all mooring balls in the BVI’s are in the BoatyBall program. The ones that are in the program are properly maintained by Moore Seacure. In most locations, there are several different owners to the balls located in the mooring field. Not all moorings are on maintenance contracts. So, if you are going to use the APP to pay for a BoatyBall mooring, please ensure that you are tied up to one, you have the right bay selected in the App (easy to do with the locate me button) and it is a BoatyBall mooring BEFORE you pay for it. Failure to do so can result in the loss of your payment. Paying for a FCFS ball before tying up to it, DOES NOT RESERVE THE BALL FOR YOU."

Never had an issue with paying the chap in the tender!

...but I'll take a FCFS Boatyball over the other kind of Boatyball any day...

But is this existing FCFS balls being converted to Boatyball FCFS (pointless but not a bother, unless the price goes up)...or are they actually adding some new ones does anyone know?

Just the kind of 'progress' the BVI needs. Hopefully Soggy Dollar Bar will start accepting Bitcoin soon...though they will have to change their name...'Short-circuited iPhone Bar' has a good ring to it.

And how much will boaty ball fcfs cost?

The only advantage here seems to be not needing to use cash.

Who thinks this is useful?

No idea...

https://virgincharteryachts.com/news

I am sure Alec can give us more information

Another speed bump... A sailing vacation is supposed to be where you drop and forget the 9 to 5 routine.
It seem s the only ones who are going to enjoy Boaty Ball are the owners and the Blowhard overweight charterers with a paid Captain and crew.

Personally, I see no value in this except for boatyball. The current system works well. Can’t see any reason paying a higher fee just to pay though a credit card to boatyball. I plan on continuing as always until no other choice

Who owns boaty ball? Are there kickbacks? Follow the money. Something smells.

I hope that there are no long team contracts, else prices are going to jump a lot once they control the market.

Mooring balls were initially installed to help protect the environment in the BVI. The US Virgin islands installed them in the National Parks for the same reason. However, maintaining and insuring mooring balls comes at a cost and many of the moorings in the BVI have not been maintained properly. If boats cannot trust moorings then this will have a negative impact on both the environment and local establishments. One of our goals at BoatyBall was to help promote maintained and insured moorings.

BoatyBall is simply a service to help simplify the payment process for moorings. BoaytBall does not own the moorings. The app was designed to support both first come first serve moorings as well as reservation only moorings. The resorts, mooring ball owners, and many boaters wanted to start with the reservation feature. We never expected this feature to have the demand that it has had. We have had over 2100 reservations in the last three months. I understand that there are many boaters that will never use the app or the reservations feature but no one is forcing anyone to use the app. There are plenty of unmaintained an uninsured moorings in the BVI that will never be in the app. There are also plenty of suitable anchorage sites for those who choose to anchor.

Finally, like many of you we feel there needs to be additional moorings installed in the BVI. Up until now there has not been a good way of tracking usage and demand. BoatyBall makes it easy for mooring ball owners to track the usage and we believe this data will justify the need for additional moorings to be installed in the BVI. We appreciate the support and feedback that we have received from this group.

Many places already advertise that their balls are maintained by moor secure..

I was not aware that boatyball is responsible if your mooring fails. I think that the standard moor secure mooring receipt says use at own risk. Had anyone read the terms recently?

If boaty ball installs more balls instead of higher priced converted balls, and if the balls are not too high for a cat, then I would consider using the fcfs version of boaty ball.

Personally I dont have any issue with boatyball conceptually...I just would hope they get the app more user friendly. I recognize they are running a business and like any business will have the goal of making a profit. I believe BB's clients are the establishments (as opposed to the captains) that pay BB to collect their fees like "Paypal" and like Paypal provides a "cashless" way to exchange funds. I dont believe BB will guarantee a mooring but please correct me if I am wrong, Alec.

I do see dynamic pricing in the future like the toll roads around Washington DC where pricing is based upon demand. I would point out that the demand right now isnt for BB per se as much as a general demand for mooring/anchoring space in general. This demand I would submit is actually based upon the decrease in supply of mooring space during the first meaningful high season since Irma.

Most of the balls in use at the normal anchorages are installed and maintained by moor secure. Those that are not generally are marked private. There were some exceptions like BEYC who did their own maintenance. I have had two balls fail on me at night. One failed at the seabed and the other under the ball. Both were corrosion induced. I would not touch any of the BEYC balls now as corrision at the shackles on the seabed is a issue.
The current style ball chosen by boatyball is to tall for most cats and will damage the underside of the cat as well as keeping you up all night if you don’t have a steady breeze to keep the boat downwind of the ball. You can prevent this by bringing the ball up short and trapping it near the front crossbar so it can’t get under the bridge deck. If you don’t control the ball you could be hit with a rather large repair bill by the charter company. That big steel ring on top of the ball will do a job on the bridge deck.
G

I don't think it's useful at all really. Everyone knows the program with FCFS and it's worked forever....if you want a guaranteed mooring then get up earlier and get there. I've never planned on a stop and couldn't get a mooring. Also, let's face it.....I don't think having $300 cash for moorings is a real issue with people that are spending $15k on a vacation. It's just a very easy thing that gets planned for.

Cheers to that!

This is a much more logical approach than reserving a specific ball due to the problems mentioned here.

Moor Seacure has installed and maintained moorings in most of the popular bays. However, there are multiple mooring ball owners in each bay and there are just as many moorings balls in the BVI that are not maintained and insured as there are maintained ones. There are several popular bays that do not have a single mooring ball in a maintenance program. Maintaining and insuring moorings balls is expensive and the ones that choose to have their moorings in a maintenance program pay a significant amount for this service. BoatyBall hopes to make it easy for boaters to select moorings that are maintained and insured. Mooring to a ball that is maintained and insured does not mean you will never have an issue but it does greatly reduce the odds. One of our goals is to promote moorings that are maintained and insured and we believe boaters want that peace of mind. If mooring ball owners can continue to charge the same as a maintained and insured moorings in the BVI then there is no incentive for them to change their behavior.

To answer your other question. BoatyBall does not install, own, maintain, or insure mooring balls. We simply are providing a service to those that do to make it easier to collect payments and track usage. We believe having more maintained moorings in the BVI will be good for boaters and tourism. BoatyBall was started by two friends whose families vacation together in the BVI. We both have day jobs and we decided to create BoatyBall for fun. Like many of you we love the BVI and wanted to create a solution that would allow us to spend more time on the water with our families. We also wanted to create a solution that would help out the local establishments after Irma. After talking with different resort and restaurant owners we found that a lot of the help left the islands and dealing with cash was an issue. BoatyBall allows restaurants and other establishments to plan for how many boats they will have in their bay each night and call in extra staff if needed. Based off of the early feedback and the overwhelming response we believe we have created a service that boaters want. It is not perfect but we have only been live for three months now and we continue to make changes based off of feedback.

I’ve never had or know of anyone who has had a problem with a moorsecure mooring ball, they do say its at your own risk the same as Boaty Ball. The only ones who benefit are the mooring owners and some restaurants as for the charterers they’re screwed with red tape that shouldn’t be part of a Caribbean sailing vacation

Not based on the feedback on this forum!

Maybe not based on the feedback on this forum but with over 2K reservations over the last three months, it's safe to say that someone likes the service.

I'm game to keep stirring this pot. Why is it ok to have to get up early on vacation to physically sail to and secure a FCFS ball at Cooper or Anegada but not ok to get up early to log into an app to secure a reservation? And then make a leisurely departure and take more time on the water en route?

Because in the world of 100% FCFS everyone has the ability to get to a mooring field in time to get a ball...its a choice and its a level playing field. Not just those with a good internet connection at 7am and fast fingers. Some people may like to still be asleep at that time, personally we are usually gone by then, so would have to find a signal whilst underway.

I'm not at all suprised about the 2k reservations and it doesn't prove the popularity of the idea at all...BB have taken FCFS balls away, so of course they're going to get used! There are more boats than balls...people won't just leave them vacant because they think BB is a s### idea! how many of the 2k reservations would have preferred or been just as happy with a FCFS? No way to know.

The more that are converted, the more people are forced to move over to BB, whether they want to or not. And the EARLIER everyone else has to get to the mooring field to pick up one of the remaining FCFS balls.

Its the very definition of a nil sum game. Some people win by having the best internet connection at 7am...the rest have to get to the mooring field even earlier than they otherwise would have...to get a FCFS ball.

None of it solves the problem...which is undersupply! If BB added some more balls then they would be helping the problem. As it is...the "two friends" who started it have just thrown a spanner in the works of a machine that was working just fine without their input.

It wasn't broken...it didn't need 'fixing'!

(and that's without listing all the other negatives of BB that have been mentioned on this forum...squatter issues/balls that damage cats/staying two nights etc etc etc)

What a CF.....anchors away.......

Christo, I agree!!!

Also interested in the “insured” statement....what does that mean???

Part of the benefit of Moor Seacure moorings is that they have some sort of liability insurnace associated with them. I don’t know how much they are insured for, but from what I understand they will reimburse a Boater x amount for damages if their boat becomes unattached from one of their moorings due to a fault on their part (ie. Penant damage, broken shackle, corrosion, etc.)