TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin PJIA Complete Recovery up to 35 Weeks

Which translates to the end of May (or maybe the beginning of June) 2018!

" Able to function optimally much sooner "

Remember, "island time".

Hey, I just posted a link to the article. I have know idea if it will be 3 weeks 5 weeks or 35+ weeks but I seriously doubt the airport will be ready for commercial air traffic within the time frame some are reportedly booking tickets for.

I read that article. Now lets hope it puts every ones vacation into perspective. I don't think anyone of us at home have any idea how much damage was done to that airport. A Cat 5! The destruction was like a tornado going around in a circle for 12 hours. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> It is unbelievable!

Now it's October 6th
https://www.sxm-talks.com/st-martin-news...ercial-flights/

Unless you have a business or property on Island, not sure why anyone would want to try and vacation... We who have a home and have destruction know first hand, we will not be able to get there and not get repairs for a long while... We lived through luis, and the Island did not look even normal for 3 years... this is much worse. I think we all should just know for now and months to come we will not be there and frankly not welcome there.. Residents are just trying to survive. No one will be able to cater to outsiders... if the airlines are booking? Its bogus, they will not fly into an airport that is damaged. And we for sure are not flying to a small island to get in, sorry that's for young people...

Lots of resorts that are damaged need to get their decision makers on island to assess the damage and come up with plans to repair. This is very true for the two Diamond resorts Flamingo and Royal Palm. Commercial flights are a must at this time. You don't need the Terminal as it was before to accept flights. Just the basics.

This time frame doesn't surprise me at all. From the pictures that I have seen there has been substantial damage to this facility. Just think about the roof for example. The article states 75% of the roof sheathing and insulation has been damaged. The article also states that this roof damage has caused leaks and mold to develop.

Before any interior repairs and/or mold remediation work can begin this building must be “dried in”, which means that the water must be kept out. You cannot start to clean up the mold if the building is still “wet”. Therefore, the first step in the repair process is going to be to fix the roof and windows to keep the rain out. Both of the windows and roofing materials are going to be special order materials made specifically for that building. That means that somebody has to determine the extent of the damage, figure out the materials needed for the repair, then order the materials. In a perfect world, this process could easily take 2 to 4 weeks. Then once the materials are ordered they have to produced, this process could easily take 6 to 8 weeks. Then they have to be shipped to the island, maybe 1-2 weeks. After the materials are received it will probably take at least 4 to 8 weeks to perform the actual repairs. That all adds up to 13 to 22 weeks before the inside can even be started.

I don’t think the airport can be open to commercial air traffic until at least some of the interior work can be completed. Not to mention that work can’t even be started until after the building is “dried in” and will take many, many weeks after that to complete, especially with all of the technology in a building like this. Unfortunately, for those folks that think they will be able to arrive anytime in the near future to an operational terminal open to the public, I think that idea is pretty much a pipe dream. My guess is the 35 weeks is a pretty good estimation of a time line.

I’m not trying to bust anyone’s bubble, but rather help those folks with a realistic synopsis of the situation.

..yet they are saying it will be open on October 6 for commercial traffic, but they basically will not be using the terminal building at all..

Still....just reading about all the OUTSIDE damage alone, including to the runway and fencing, lights, etc, I find it very hard to believe they're going to be ready for commercial flights in just over one week from today. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

THAT STORY IS COMPLETE BULL !

See this from Govt. source saying so:

"No date set for restarting of commercial flights

PHILIPSBURG:--- Minister responsible for Aviation Affairs Mellissa Arrindell-Doncher has re-iterated that no official date has been announced by government for the resumption of commercial flights into St. Maarten.

The Minister stressed that travelers need to be careful with any information unless it comes from the official source, in other words, the government of St. Maarten. She said there is some confusion being created by, among other things, airlines announcing dates that they hope to resume service to the island.

In some cases, airlines are allowing people to book tickets although the green light has not been given by government to execute commercial flights. “We have stated before and will state again, the Princess Juliana International Airport has to meet various safety and operational regulations before it can handle commercial flights,” the Minister said.

“When we are at that point to accept commercial flights again, we will announce this and in due time. At the moment there is no date. We urge potential passengers abroad and at home to wait on official notification,” she added.

Press Release from the Ministry of TEATT"

Hmmmm, just a thought but could the word 'commercial' be the problem here?

Just thinking out loud, but to me, the word commercial would indicate anything that costs money but that doesn't necessarily mean passenger flights, does it?

Could they be opening the runways and the airport for shipping purposes only? Lord knows, there's a need for goods to come to the island quickly and that would not require the man-power or facilities that passenger flights in and out might require. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

I believe flights that are considered humanitarian (free?) or relief flights are exempt.

Commercial flights is where you buy a ticket to be a passenger, etc.

From the original article that started this thread:

"She added that while she understands the frustration of residents abroad wanting to come home and those in St. Maarten wanting to leave, the normalisation of commercial flights cannot commence until the airport is fully ready to service these flights. The Airport, she explained, falls under several regulations in terms of safety and operations of international flights.
“We cannot jeopardize the status of the airport and that of St. Maarten by rushing operations at the airport,” she said."

Among the things needed to be done:
"Attain critical systems needed for Air Traffic Services (ATS) to perform separation (classification D) of traffic."

i.e. to re-establish civilian air traffic control, they have no beacon or radar now; I have a feeling that is not up to international standards for commercial flights.

I didn't know that and I stand corrected. It sounded reasonable to me, though..... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Yes. Airport needs to be fully functional and meet all safety criteria for commercial flights to begin. Needing the current terminal is a different story.

I never said that they needed the current terminal <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Airlines are in business to sell tickets. I think it borders on foolhardy to buy an airline ticket to SXM right now, for anytime in the near future. I wouldn't do it until the airport is confirmed to be open....by the airport authority.

Yikes. OK.. Link to the press release??

Here is one, but there are more:

https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islands/69717-no-date-set-for-restarting-of-commercial-flights


Here is the original source of that original, inaccurate, BS article about the airport re-opening Oct. 6th;
note bottom half of article, they did an "update" but not a retraction. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

http://www.smn-news.com/st-maarten-st-ma...al-flights.html

Plus they can do visual in day time. Old school and tricky but I knew the chief ATC at PJIA and he trained with major aerospace vendors, i.e. Raytheon. PJIA is one of the most difficult airports in the world.
Cheers

I don't think that "visual in day time" is up to international requirements for Commercial flights.

Actually a visual approach is what all are making right now and what most make in normal times to PJIA (aka TNCM). The tower frequency 118.7 MHz is up. They have never has a precision Instrument Landing System (ILS) at PJIA. They do have a non-precision instrument approach to the PJM VOR (that funny antenna thing across from the casino). According to the NOTAM below, the PJM VOR Is out of service as are the lights, several frequencies.

they have no JET FUEL.

But they can conduct visual flight rules (VFR) visual approaches. Prior permission is required prior to arrival for humanitarian, military, etc.

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/no...etrievalByICAOs


TNCM PRINCESS JULIANA INTL [Back to Top]

A0563/17 NOTAMR A0561/17
Q) TJZS/QFALC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709281125 C) 1709291130
E) AD CLSD. HUM, MIL, SAR, HOSP, MEDEVAC AND STATE FLT ARE ALLOWED
AND NEED PRE APV FOR TKOF AND LDG. TKOF AND LDG VFR OPS ONLY FM 1130Z
TILL 2130Z. PRE APV CAN BE REQUESTED VIA FOLLOWING EMAIL
LOUIS.HALLEY(AT)SINTMAARTENGOV.ORG OR BY PHONE +1-721-520-5339
A0555/17 NOTAMN
Q) TJZS/QFUAU/IV/NBO/A/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709241845 C) 1710081845
E) JET FUEL UNAVAILABLE AT TNCM
A0544/17 NOTAMN
Q) TJZS/QCACR/IV/B/AE/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709201600 C) 1710201130
E) MAIN FREQ 118.7 MHZ AVBL TO CTC ATC TNCM.
A0543/17 NOTAMN
Q) TJZS/QXXXX/IV/NBO/A/000/150/1802N06306W040
A) TNCM B) 1709201600 C) 1710201130
E) TNCM DIRECT SPEECH CIRCUIT CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE DUE TO RESULTS OF
HURCN.
F) SFC G) FL150
A0542/17 NOTAMN
Q) TJZS/QFMAU/IV/BO/A/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709201600 C) 1710201130
E) MET SER NOT AVBL DUE TO RESULTS OF HURCN.
A0541/17 NOTAMN
Q) TJZS/QCAAS/IV/B/AE/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709201600 C) 1710201130
E) EMERG FREQ 121.5 MHZ U/S DUE TO RESULTS OF HURCN.
A0540/17 NOTAMR A0531/17
Q) TJZS/QSAXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709201555 C) 1710201130
E) ATIS IS CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE DUE TO RESULTS OF HURCN.
A0539/17 NOTAMR A0532/17
Q) TJZS/QNMXX/IV/NBO/AE/000/999/1802N06306W005
A) TNCM B) 1709201555 C) 1710201130
E) PJM VOR/DME IS CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE DUE TO RESULTS OF HURCN.
A0538/17 NOTAMR A0533/17
Q) TJZS/QXXXX/IV/NBO/AW/000/150/1802N06306W040
A) TNCM B) 1709201550 C) 1710201130
E) TNCM ATS SUSPENDED DUE TO THE RESULTS OF HURCN.
F) SFC G) FL150
A0239/17 NOTAMN
Q) TJZS/QNBAW/IV/BO/AE/000/999/1802N06307W030
A) TNCM B) 1706182216 C) PERM
E) PJD NDB 284.0 KHZ OUT OF SERVICE AND WILL BE PERMANENTLY

"But they can conduct visual flight rules (VFR) visual approaches. Prior permission is required prior to arrival for humanitarian, military, etc."

So are you trying to give the impression that they can open the airport for normal Commercial Flights in violation of certain other International standards for Commercial flights? I don't think so.

Your "cut-and-paste" does not address that issue, does it?

I never claimed that "visual approach" is not what they are using now. Rather that the condition of the air traffic control system is not up to international standards for Commercial Flights. Is visual approach without an operating civilian air traffic control system up to standards? This discussion is just getting ridiculous.

Point being is airport is not open for Commercial Flights, period.

Whatever

Delta, American, united, KLM all make visual approaches everyday at airports big and small.

The cut and paste is the official NOTAMs for the airport. Through the I'd save some clicking to faa.gov.

The only thing they may not have for daytime vfr ops is a radar to provide traffic separation on the approach. Probably not a whole lot of traffic but nonetheless. A military ship in the area could provide that surveillance radar if their was one.

Your right, as our my NOTAMS, not open for commercial flights.

Exactly. Let's wait and see when the SXM Govt. announces that the airport will be open to commercial traffic.
The rest of this is just a waste of time.

no finer way to waste time than hanging here with us TTOLers

I can agree with that <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/smashpc.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Think about his for a moment. For regular passenger traffic there will have to be some sort of indoor facilities. Airlines will need a way to print boarding passes, baggage tags and to check people in on their computer systems. There will also have to be the normal security screening of passengers and a way to keep them segregated after screening. Some sort of temporary facilities will have to be set up. That's going to take more than a couple of weeks I would think.

Correct. For those who think a "shack" can be thrown up and the airport look like it was 20 years ago, that will not happen. The world as a whole has changed with security being a major part of that change. It isn't like Delta or AA is going to fly in, open the doors and passengers grab their luggage and they are on their way.

Correct, also where could it (temporary and secure facilities) be put realistically. Cannot put temporary in front of the current terminal. Where the Winair buildings and the freight buildings are is way too small. The only area that I can think of at the moment is where the employee parking is located. That has its own issues, but the only place that would be large enought to handle any kind of regular amount of passengers.

Even a temporary facility will take time to build. With all of the rules and regulations governing air traffic now. I would have to believe that a pretty good security system will have to be in place before any aircraft leaving SXM will be allowed in USA airspace.

Not sure what the "FBO Building" is that they are referring to??

A Fixed Base Operator (FBO) is an entity - usually a commercial company - which provides "aviation services" at an airport. One of the main services they provide is fueling, either full service or a self service pump.

FBO = Fixed Based Operator That's an Aviation Industry term used to describe a building that provides services for Private Aircraft. There's one or more FBO's at almost every airport.

OK, so where is this building at PJIA??

Depends upon which one is usable. PJIA has four.


Arrindell Aviation | Signature Flight Support (FBO)

ExecuJet St. Maarten (FBO)

Halley Aviation Services (Handler)

Menzies Aviation St. Maarten (FBO)