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Story is going to be on ABC World News Tonight.
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ruralcarrier said:
Protective padding? Perhaps but how about people use common sense and don't knowingly do stupid and unsafe things. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
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shieneehead said:It is sad that it happened but standing at the fence is one of the most asinine things I've seen. I've never understood the motivation to do it. It doesn't look enjoyable. The internet is loaded with videos of people getting hurt and sandblasted. It's like playing Russian roulette. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> With all of the cylinders loaded. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" />
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SXMDeepBleu said:
Google: "Airport blast fence", intended for this very thing. It is a money and publicity generating anomaly for the island, hence the new amount of tours from cruise port to the site. No way will it ever be corrected. What's to correct??? These people aren't forced....nor is it an accident. These folks make a choice to do something stupid........so be it.
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Carol_Hill said:
So sad for this lady's family that this happened. Even if a person doesn't try to 'ride the fence', we see REALLY stupid behavior there all the time. People literally stand in the road, walk in the road, walk on the concrete barriers, right in front of cars going past, and they are usually half lit. It makes me very nervous to drive down through there when there are a lot of people there, afraid that someone will fall right in front of our car and we will run them down. People seem to have no good sense about them. I am with you on this one Carol I hate driving that area anymore and the people look at you like you are in their way!
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SXMBND said:SXMDeepBleu said:
Google: "Airport blast fence", intended for this very thing. It is a money and publicity generating anomaly for the island, hence the new amount of tours from cruise port to the site. No way will it ever be corrected. What's to correct??? These people aren't forced....nor is it an accident. These folks make a choice to do something stupid........so be it. To correct would be an issue to safety due to it being close to the roadside as they do all over the world, for vehicles that need to pass let alone the ignorant that cling to the fence regardless of any sign. It's really a Govt. liability too when it comes to the concerns of tourism safety. The day that there is an engine fire or failure upon takeoff although rare but sudden, and raw fuel or fire or shrapnel shoots out and makes its way to a whole beach full of people then maybe.
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I guess the signs and someone just getting killed had no impact. Updated Article
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Why cant they put the fence on the beach side? Every time we drive through there...we have to stop for people crossing the road...to hang on the fence....it makes no sense to me.
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Now that makes sense to me, it really does! But the down side...if/when people still walk the road...there's no way out, then the first vehicle/pedestrian fatality it's the fence fault. I just watched a video of a young lady blown off the fence, tripped over the middle curb and hits her head on the higher beachside curb....lower the curbs "trip hazards"? first vehicle that makes it on the beach and hurts/kills someone...it's the lack of curb protection! Can the Police Dept really be expected, or afford, to put an officer at that location all day 365? It's a tricky one... put up a real barrier deflecting jet wash....the crowd would still get to see the overhead landings?! Thoughts and prayers for family involved.
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I am guessing the height of the curb is to prevent traffic from crossing into the other lane and also to stop some of the sand from coming onto the road. Look at how people drive through the area, stop and look, etc. IF it were not for the height of the curbs, there would be numerous cases of vehicles hitting other vehicles. The curbs are there for a reason and you pretty much stated it. How about the PEDESTRIANS just stay off the road? Same picture but another update HERE.
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Just saw this on one of the news channel, and it was on facebook as well... Guess this is a big thing... Can not imagine a woman of her age being that careless. I would understand younger people that are thrill seakers... Gezzz. have sat on that beach and automatically ducked when the planes came over head, but would never go near that fence... They do not have to do a thing, there is a huge warning of danger, but there will be stupid people... Feel bad for her family... Sad
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The beach was basically unknown until the advent of the internet and then social media. With YouTube videos the location has become wildly popular. Where else in the would can you be that close to a live runway with big jets coming and going? Media thrives on stuff like this.
No idea why someone of any age would do what many do but throw in a little alcohol and age and common sense are no longer relevant.
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The whole situation defies logic and this outcome is a horrific result. I visited the sunset bar when we first visited the island years ago. (Been there, done that moment) It was a slow day, however there were a handful of people who were holding onto the fence. My jaw dropped on the dangers. Exhaust, FOD on the runway, and the risk of being blown across a road. We can beat this one to death, but its is dangerous on so many levels. Because it was a slow day, I started chatting up with one of SBB managers. I asked if anyone had been killed and he said no..."a couple broken bones..but no deaths... He also just rolled his eyes at the idiots riding the fence. I was shocked no one had been killed over the years...
Clearly this activity needs to be discouraged. Instead of building more barriers and infrastructure that may or may not work, how about just making the fence off limits and anyone caught touching it or is caught loitering on the road subject to a hefty fine? Say $500. I am just spitballing here but its seems if you actual create a hard consequence for a potentially dumb action you will discourage more, not all, from doing something stupid.
Last edited by wabid; 07/14/2017 07:51 AM.
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J.D. We have always kept our distance from the area, the danger of the blast itself, the debris, the dust, and the fumes all pose health risks not to mention the aircraft itself.
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Toxic compounds formed by Oxidation or burning of benzene in jet engine?
Benzene + oxygen goes to carbon dioxide and water vapor.
C6H6 + (15/2)O2 ----> 6CO2 + 3H2O
Never realized that carbon dioxide and water vapor were toxic chemicals. From an environmental chemist.
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there will always be thrill seekers. And mix alcohol to the issue? That beach is right next to sunset bar. But even if there was no alcohol, there are those that like to defy risks... Again, I know kids have little fear, but this was not a kid. As we mature we gather more reality and fear. that's a good thing... This woman is dead, If she had just gotten badly hurt, she would have thought twice about ever trying that again. She did not get the second chance...
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The planes are a HUGE tourist attraction and fining people would just give the island more bad publicity. And St. Maarten cops have a whole lot of things they need to do to address crime and do not have the money or resources to devote to such an operation. I think that a jet blast wall would make landing more difficult and dangerous for the airplanes, and that is obviously not something that would be a good thing. I suppose that one could make it so that there is no space to stand beside the road. That would at least be a start, I guess. Although of course more people would then just walk in the road, which is already very dangerous. I see many people, especially locals, walk by the end of the runway there all the time. At least part of the reason is because they don't want to walk in the sand on the other side. What would be nice is if there were a paved walkway on the side of the road, so that people could walk over there, out of the road but not on the sand. However, since the sand comes and goes so much there, not sure how practical that would be either. It's a conundrum. I have no more knowledge than anyone here, but I suspect the only thing they could do is to try to eliminate any space between the fence and the road in the hopes of preventing people from walking or standing there. I don't know how you do that though.
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Daily Herald editorial says that police pass by there, but I've never seen any.
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The Police and the Customs agents always pass there everyday.
Plus we call them to come and tow away badly parked cars. The Tow Trunk Guy from the Airport does the towing. $ 75.00 per towed car.
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Carol_Hill said:
The planes are a HUGE tourist attraction and fining people would just give the island more bad publicity. And St. Maarten cops have a whole lot of things they need to do to address crime and do not have the money or resources to devote to such an operation. I think that a jet blast wall would make landing more difficult and dangerous for the airplanes, and that is obviously not something that would be a good thing. I suppose that one could make it so that there is no space to stand beside the road. That would at least be a start, I guess. Although of course more people would then just walk in the road, which is already very dangerous. I see many people, especially locals, walk by the end of the runway there all the time. At least part of the reason is because they don't want to walk in the sand on the other side. What would be nice is if there were a paved walkway on the side of the road, so that people could walk over there, out of the road but not on the sand. However, since the sand comes and goes so much there, not sure how practical that would be either. It's a conundrum. I have no more knowledge than anyone here, but I suspect the only thing they could do is to try to eliminate any space between the fence and the road in the hopes of preventing people from walking or standing there. I don't know how you do that though. I agree. You can't eliminate the attraction, perhaps make it a more positive experience? ("Stand here, here and here, don't ever stand here") The Fine is just an idea, and perhaps completely unenforceable, given other priorities. Unfortunately its easy for me to witness the potential danger and sit back at my keyboard come up with arm chair solutions. Its sad, tragic, and thoroughly avoidable. I hope the authorities and the islands tourism leaders find a way to solve the problem.
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I think a 500$ dollar fine could justify having more frequent patrolling and be a source of revenue!
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...and then tourists would whine that they were being gouged by the government!!
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Speebs said:
Toxic compounds formed by Oxidation or burning of benzene in jet engine?
Benzene + oxygen goes to carbon dioxide and water vapor.
C6H6 + (15/2)O2 ----> 6CO2 + 3H2O
Never realized that carbon dioxide and water vapor were toxic chemicals. From an environmental chemist. 1. Jet fuel is not benzene. 2. Fuel combustion in an engine is not complete - you don't get to equilibrium. Various decomposition intermediates and side products are produced. From another chemist.
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You can't legislate common sense. I have no sympathy for those that choose to break the rules ...... they must suffer the consequence. We don't need a whole bunch of new rules and restrictions to protect these people from themselves. I really don't care if they continue ........it's their choice.
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You can't legislate common sense. Correct...even though MANY attempts are made to try and protect people from themselves
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It was only a matter of time before another person was badly hurt. You are standing behind a rocket ship taking off. I saw one guy with a large piece of sharp glass embedded in his eye. I'm sure he lost it. He's probably doing Arrow shirt commercials now.
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Rbailey said:Speebs said:
Toxic compounds formed by Oxidation or burning of benzene in jet engine?
Benzene + oxygen goes to carbon dioxide and water vapor.
C6H6 + (15/2)O2 ----> 6CO2 + 3H2O
Never realized that carbon dioxide and water vapor were toxic chemicals. From an environmental chemist. 1. Jet fuel is not benzene. 2. Fuel combustion in an engine is not complete - you don't get to equilibrium. Various decomposition intermediates and side products are produced. From another chemist. This is fine, correct me if you must. Give yourself a star. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
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First trip to SXM 1993. Age 41. Had to try it. Not from the fence. From the beach but directly behind jet blast. Couple seconds in my thoughts to myself were "What an effin moronic thing to do"
Sadly people ignore signs. They have seen the video and have a WTF moment and give it a try. This incident, sadly, had a tragic ending. Will it stop anyone? My guess is no.
It's part of the "GreaterFool" theory. For every incident, there is a greater fool who thinks that nothing bad can happen to them.
Rick and Grace
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I have never done it, never had any interest in doing it. A friend of mine did it a couple of years ago, from the beach, and got blown into the water. No injuries, but I don't think she wanted to do it again....
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Adding the following to the Danger sign might help a little: "Fine of $20,000 (U.S.) for hanging on the fence during jet take-offs."
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Sorry, I think that's a ridiculous amount. The current signs do not even say it is ILLEGAL to stand there, as I'm not at all certain that it is. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law that says that it is illegal to stand there. The problem, as I said, is that particularly many local people walk along there, to get from Beacon Hill to Maho, as this is the only way to get there. The law would have to be carefully drafted to allow people to walk through there, just not stand there, and I think that would be a bit dicey in drafting.
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A sign saying : EXTREME DANGER AREA !! DO NOT STAND HERE WHEN PLANES ARE ARRIVING OR LEAVING !! DEATH COULD RESULT !!
The violators will do whatever they wish anyway. Nothing more to do about it.
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<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> Carol_Hill said:
Sorry, I think that's a ridiculous amount. The current signs do not even say it is ILLEGAL to stand there, as I'm not at all certain that it is. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law that says that it is illegal to stand there. The problem, as I said, is that particularly many local people walk along there, to get from Beacon Hill to Maho, as this is the only way to get there. The law would have to be carefully drafted to allow people to walk through there, just not stand there, and I think that would be a bit dicey in drafting.
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o2bnsxm said:
A sign saying : EXTREME DANGER AREA !! DO NOT STAND HERE WHEN PLANES ARE ARRIVING OR LEAVING !! DEATH COULD RESULT !!
The violators will do whatever they wish anyway. Nothing more to do about it. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
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I actually have seen the police vehicles stop & move them off the fence & off the cement edge of the road. I'm not sure how often they go. As soon as they leave everybody ran back up though. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
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o2bnsxm said:
A sign saying : EXTREME DANGER AREA !! DO NOT STAND HERE WHEN PLANES ARE ARRIVING OR LEAVING !! DEATH COULD RESULT !!
The violators will do whatever they wish anyway. Nothing more to do about it. I've been thinking about the 'get blown' t-shirts and signs at Sunset that seems to encourage this. I'm thinking about the people who think 57 years old is old. I'm thinking this is really sad but not unexpected and it's remarkable it hasn't happened before.
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Actually it almost did, about four years ago, the person hit the wall but lived to tell about it thankfully.
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Carol_Hill said:
Sorry, I think that's a ridiculous amount. The current signs do not even say it is ILLEGAL to stand there, as I'm not at all certain that it is. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law that says that it is illegal to stand there. The problem, as I said, is that particularly many local people walk along there, to get from Beacon Hill to Maho, as this is the only way to get there. The law would have to be carefully drafted to allow people to walk through there, just not stand there, and I think that would be a bit dicey in drafting. I figured a high enough amount to deter a drunk tourist. But I see what you're saying about walking past, in that many people don't actually cling to the fence during take-off, but put themselves in line with the engine thrust. And who's to say who merely unknowingly walks past at the very moment the plane takes off versus who intentionally stops to participate in this foolish activity. It's a tricky issue, but maybe a slightly higher, solid wall, just at the end of the runway, would be better to prevent this from happening.
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As I said before in this thread, I think that a solid wall would be more dangerous for the planes landing, especially if a plane landed really short, as Air France did that one time.
Carol Hill
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