TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands Airport project is delayed

looks like the airport project is delayed. Sounds like there is no money in the bank. Maybe reality is winning the day. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Not sure it is delayed "indefinitely" but they are definitely getting cold feet.

There was a discussuion on a BVI Facebook page Monday that may have had an effect. It was widely participated in and the vast majority was opposed to the extension. I was suprised to see some post questioning the project from people who had previously been in favor.

BTW, the greenhouses are back in the news with a proposal for $1.5 mill to replace the covers and equip a couple of them. However, the royalty situation with IBT is still not resolved.

No surprises there then.

I thought the Chinese were underwriting the airport in return for a nuclear sub base to be named later?

re:
The Greenhouses.
So they now need to replace the covers yet the greenhouses have not grown 1 tomato. 1.5 million buys a lot of tomatoes.
This is another BAD idea. Wait till the first hurricane comes and destroys the greenhouses. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

How can a project be undertaken where you don't own the technology? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

So with the airport on hold we can expect the government to jump into the ferry situation with both feet and fix it!
G

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

No, it's <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" />

Highly unlikely. The leadership of the British Virgin Islands do not want the visitors to the BVI to ride the cross border ferries.

And why not considering the ferries bring more than 70% of the over night visitors and even when AE was flying they were bringing more than half? Even if by some miricle some airline decides to make 2 flights a day into Beef Island the ferries will still carry more than half.

The BVI IS getting a reputation for being hard to get to but it is not because of limited air access. It is because of a crappy ferry service.

The reason the ferry service cannot be fixed is because the government is affraid to go against the 3 or 4 families that own the ferry companies who carry on petty competitions to the detriment of the visitors and who have milked them of cash to the detriment of the whole country.

Glen nailed it!
G

Good point Glenn, though arrived quite well via the Bomba charger Wed. A little (comparitivly) investment in the ferry service would make a huge difference.

A dependablele catamaran ferry every hour and a half from 1PM til 7pm leaving STT with 8 am and 10 am morning service.. Along with daily service at 5pm to VG, would solve many problems causing people to complain.

Honestly since the ATRs left and FF flights to EIS or VG were unavailable or required spending +\- 450 for the SJU/VG leg, going through STT from the Midwest we arrive on VG earlier than when we had to make connections in Chicago or Miami and the SJU ..was often the late North Sound Ferry..so the day of travel was 2-3 hrs longer than currently taking ferry from STT.

Subsidizing schedule when a certain minimum of passengers was not met to be sure Ferries ran on time And vessels were up to date would make the journey dependable and quite accommodating to most vacationers.

The frustrating thing is that almost unique to ferry systems in the world the STT/Tortola route can make an exceptionally good profit without any subsidies. It has an almost captive market, a break even load factor of about 40% and a only 75 days in the year where the passenger load drops below 50%, revenue of $1.65 per passenger mile and close to $1.20 per seat mile. These are numbers that airline executive could only immagine in their wildest dreams.

He sure did. We should all get together, form an investment company and then approach one of the local companies with a business plan that will put them head and shoulders above the rest.

But it looks like they're building something serious for cyberspace.

Caribbean Journal

I was told once that the only way to get in the ferry business in the BVI is to marry into it.

You can't do it with just one company. The other two would risk bankruptcy to try to kill it they way they did when Bobby Hodge started. The only way I can see it happening would be for someone with deep pockets to present the three companies with a deal they can't refuse. A 10 year lease to own deal on 6 new 95 passenger fast cats on the condition that they form a co-op with a centralized booking office so that passengers would always be placed on the next boat going. A common ticketing office at each termial would save money and could anticipate when demand required bringing on an extra boat. If managed correctly no passenger would have more than a hour wait.

The companies would rotate runs through the day and receive a base for each run plus a per passenger overide at the end of each month that would be penalized for failing to make a run. That way there would be no motive for canceling a run due to lack of demand or jockying around to get the choice time slot.

Maybe too little, too late, in the wrong direction? This is one of the key priorities that came out of the McKinney study and others. The musts are regular jet services to the US and best in class internet and telecommunications. To attract and keep "discerting visitors" they must be able to easily get in and out without hassle and be able to access networks just as they can at home or at the office>

"First and foremost, the jurisdiction should prioritise building an environment that offers convenient air and sea transportation and seamless telecommunications. The Terrence B. Lettsome airport upgrade, and better use of shuttle connections to the Cyril E. King International Airport in nearby St. Thomas, should continue to be fast-tracked."

ST. Thomas and STT refused to go along with the shuttle from STT.

Like the tomatoes, I have not idea where this local content value ever comes from.

"If managed correctly". Mission Impossible.

RE:
Ferry service at 5 PM to VG. This is a realty as you know and Speedy does a great job with his ferry service to STT and also service to/from Roadtown and also to/from Beef Island.
Ferries are clean, run ontime and comfortable. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Roadtown Fast Ferry does a good job with the ferry that comes down from Ma each year. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
If only the BVI government would help and improve on what is working, there would be a decent ferry service.

The BVI Government help? Get the government out of there if you want real progress.

Actually, Government intervention in the form enforcing service level requirements through its power of granting and regulating public franchises is key. Currently the worst possible combination of government cronyism and abandonment of its regulatory responsibility exists.

That is true on both ends of the route. While the STT taxi associations are an obsticle to a unified service from the airport to Tortola, the real problem is the close relationship between one of the ferry companies and the USVI Ports Authority. As far as the taxi objection is concerned, the current franchises expire in January 2018 and the ST. Thomas Dept of Tourism, the Hotel Association and the Chamber of Commerce are lined up to weaken the exclusivity even more than they managed in 2012. In 2012 the taxis at STT were required to dedicate several lanes exclusively to individual resorts. Hopefully the same will be required for the ferry terminal in future regulations. Also, with a reliable ferry and central ticketing the rate of advanced reservation will increase allowing the ferry system to provide limosine service to and from the airport.

The real problem is landing rights at Blyden terminal and Smiths and Native Son both have a lot of influence with the USVI Ports Authority. Unless they are brought into a cooperative arangement any improvement in the ferry service will be impossible.

Re: the airport. When you're broke, you're broke. And it sounds like they be really broke. Margaritaville is halted, too.

http://www.bviplatinum.com/news.php?articleId=1466128390

I was going to say the same. Management in the BVI by BVIslanders is non-existant.

That would be one of the advantages of a lease to own deal. The outside financial backer would have to have a large say in the management. Unfortunately that is the major drawback to my proposal. The recent IBAHNHAR reaction to RTW/Riteway selling to CostULess is an indication that the islands will forever be trapped in their own greed and short sightedness.

Was the American Eagle operation out of the San Juan hub to multiple destinations in the Caribbean unprofitable or was it a casualty of the AA bankruptcy?

We have not been back the Tortola since the ATR's stopped operating.

Seven flights a day to EIS from San Juan was lovely and beat the hell out of the STT, Shared Taxi, Unreliable Ferry, Taxi to charter base scenario. And I like others here don't see this improving any time soon.

Improved air service would bring us back. Am I the only one that feels this way? I mean besides Stormjib.

AMR felt they were being dealt with unfairly by the airport authority in SJU. Low cost airlines were being charged far less then the legacy airlines. They threatened to leave and the airport did not believe it. In the end they pulled 50 ATR's out and dropped 10 mainline flights to SJU. It probably was a good thing overall as it has served as a warning to other airports and even government agencies. Florida as a example recently agreed to phase in equal fuel taxes for all airlines. JetBlue, Spirit and Southwest will have to pay the same higher tax rate as Delta, United and AMR.
G

Just did a Goggle search for Chinese projects in the Caribbean.
What a mess. Lawsuits on many projects, overruns on projects,Chinese workers having a sideline in Antigua removing all the lobsters, hotels have no lobsters

Bottom line the BVI best make sure about this project.
Design of the project must be set in stone, no changes. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Just curious... Nobody mentions Seaborne. They have multiple flights daily and we have used for several years without any problems. Uses to even have a quite lane for security though now that they are in the main terminal that perk has gone. Certainly not every hour but some selection. Is there a problem with them?

We don't need the airport extension and, much as I love JB, we don't need another "Margaritaville". I do feel bad for those who have jumped on the pier bandwagon by spending $$$$$$ to open places..think this will be a big white elephant..

"Design of the project must be set in stone, no changes."

That is not the way this project is approach at all. The Airport will be a "design build". The plan is for a single contract with the project owner to provide their own design and construction services. One entity, one contract, one unified flow of work from initial concept through completion. The costs to fully engineers and design a project like this are enormous. Theoretically the cost would be fixed or not to exceed in the contract. To count on that is always naive. Something will likely be discovered along the way that the people of the BVI will want to pay for rather than suffer the shortfall. Potential issues with the environment come to mind.

You can look up the benefits of "design build" and why many use that approach today.

Seaborne may be a great match for many. But, the new table stakes for 21st Century holiday travel is direct jet service from the US mainland. Aruba, Barbados, Cayman Islands, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, St. Kitts, St. Lucia and St. Martin plus Antigua, Bermuda, St. Vincent have all reads the reports and are making the investments to improve direct jet service from Canada and the US Mainland. The BVI will to it is just a matter of where, how, and when. Each month of delay only serves to increase the cost and disruption when the time comes. If and when the five jetports in Cuba open to US tourist the entire industry will change. There will be some domino effect there. The same could be true if Puerto Rico decides to be their future on visitor dollars.... There is already some massive very high end hotel investment in play there. The same with marina services.

Thanks. The reason I come to BVI is the sailing... If not would go to,one of the destinations mentioned. Puerto Rico is great. Those are all bigger places with much more options and population base. Can t imagine bvi ever attracting large plane loads of folks... And if it did Imfor,one would find somewhere else.

I have never heard anyone talking about planes larger than the +/-200 passenger 737-800. The strategic plan is to hold on to the visitors who come today along with a transitioning to a more "discerning" visitor spending more per day. The plan has never been to dramatically grow the number of visitors. There is hope for a longer peak season(10 months) with more repeat visitors using the jet services for more frequent trips. Done well the BVI will be less crowded with greater revenues. That is only possible with direct consistent access from the US.

I watch, but never contribute. My bad. There is a four letter word that seems never to be mentioned. "Cuba". The entire Caribbean will change when Cuba opens up. The BVI will not be able to retain it's prosperity. I am one who felt the venality of the BVI justice system in 2000. It is no different than Massachusetts or other corrupt state in the USA, but on a smaller scale. The BVI is a paradise that is totally misgoverned and at the mercy of a few powerful families. Sorry to have to say this, but I believe it to be true. Cuba will make this argument unnecessary.

We do the same with Cape Air. And frankly, the smaller planes allow for more frequent flights giving more options for timing. Larger planes would mean fewer flights and fewer options. And I don't think it woudl reduce the cost either.

None of this was ever about reducing costs or prices. The plans are all about increasing convenience and reducing hassles for the travelers who are less price sensitive. Mexico, DR, Cuba will win the battles for the lower cost travelers. The BVI has no hope of ever competing in that league.

All that said when it comes to air travel do not discount the cost each time a plane must go up and go down. Those costs come from airport charges, air frame cost with each cycle, engine costs, enormous fuel burn along with all the labor and time loss. Every airline must get to +/-10 cents a passenger mile to survive. No airline can do that with short hop flights anymore. So in theory the efficient market will end up costing less to fly direct. Whether those savings are passed onto the customer is a product management decision. Figure out how much you are paying per mile for those Seaborne seats and services. Airport fees, fuel to go up, and labor going slow all add up to a money loser for the operator. So AA punted along with all the other majors who offered short haul services. Labor costs are drowning those still trying to hang on.

Regional short haul flight segments are expensive and the airlines are running from them. This will only get worse not better.

Here is some airline 101 from AA latest disclosure:

"First quarter mainline cost per available seat mile (CASM) was 11.58 cents, down 9.5 percent on a 3.1 percent increase in mainline ASMs versus the first quarter 2015. Excluding special items and fuel, mainline CASM was 9.62 cents, up 1.4 percent compared to the first quarter 2015. Regional CASM excluding net special items and fuel was 16.11 cents, down 2.2 percent on an 8.1 percent increase in regional ASMs versus the first quarter 2015."

Some airlines may run form the regional segments, while others (see Cape Air) base their whole business on them.

It seems based on your arguments that the wealthy who are too important to risk their lives on small places are really the only ones that need direct service. Anyone else who has the money can simply fly to San Juan and pay the price for the regional flight. Or fly to St. Thomas and pay the price for a water taxi.

Because if direct flights would only come from Miami or places near there, its still two legs for most. So maybe I'm just a fool, but I don't see how that benefits most people.

Seems to me to charter boat business does well in the seasons it should do well. How do the hotels do? How many more people can they take? What aren't the coming today? Have these questions really been asked?

I think the answer is simple - many people are simply unaware of the BVI. I knew about St. Thomas - honeymooned there. Didn't know a thing about the BVI at that time. It wasn't until 8-9 years later that we went to St. John with friends that we found out more about the BVI.

Maybe if the BVI spent a portion of the airport money on advertising, they'd attract more people. Or as has been mentioned plenty, on a better ferry service. St John seems to do well with Ferry service only..

In the end it's all a moot point. There is simply no suitable place for a reasonable airport in the BVI except Anegada. I am sure Storm Jibs comments have validity however the shoe simply will not fit.
G

Storm Jib..this is a conversation much like ground hog day. Everyplace you mention having direct service ...has competitive air service by multiple airlines. That is because they can be competitive and fill planes to that destination that is popular with a large segment traveling.

You know that no major airline has said they will fly this route to the BVI correct? You know there is no evidence that a very expensive flight to the BVI will cause the very wealthy to fly coach to the BVI do you not?
Perhaps the most wealthy per capita destination in the Caribbean is St Bart's. Would you list the carriers providing direct flights to St Bart's from the mainland?

Because you believe something will happen it does not mean it will. the last time you claimed it was accountants and Little Dix executives who needed this service. they wouldn't together pay for one flight in 5 years most likely.... the Rosewood executives are not flying daily to their various properties and when the big boss goes, he is going to be flying in a private aircraft. telecommuting has arrived!!

Anyway..glad it looks like wiser heads prevailed and project is shut down for the foreseeable future. Think it was a disaster in the making.