TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Paradise damaged (crime report)

Walt, you and I have been members of TTOL for about the same length of time. I've read many of your posts and have enjoyed your contributions. I'm sorry you experienced this crime, and hope your physical and emotional recoveries are short.

I have just one word for you: Cuba. It's going to put SXM out of business if this crap continues.

I'm sorry dave....u dont think there is crime in cuba???? Try telling that to the people of Miami!!!!

1) do the people in Miami live in Cuba?
b) do tourists in Cuba need to be in fear for their safety in a populated, heavily touristed and well lit area at mid-evening?

Crime is almost non-existent in Cuba. Punishment is severe there and crime is not tolerated. We have always felt very safe on our visits there. Dave is right, St. MARTIN/ST. MAARTEN will definitely suffer when tourism dollars go to Cuba!I feel very sorry for all the SXM business people who depend on tourism for their livlihood. It is so sad that the government will not do anything to support the people and take a stand against all this crime.

Walt, After reading your post, I felt sick to my stomach!! As a rule we walk in packs and or never go anywhere where we can't see the car in front of the place we are dinning at. This is a reminder that, no matter where you go. No matter how many times you've been to your favorite places to dine. You have to have eye's in the back of your head at ALL times!! Walt, you, like us now have been going to our "home away from home" for SO many years. I would hate to think that you and your lovely family will not return. DON'T let these lil bastards get the better of you!!! God bless, hope to see you on Orient soon!

Ah yes. Give me a good communist dictatorship that rules it's people with an iron fist. But, hey it's safe for us. Great place to vacation! Don't forget the Che t-shirts for the folks back home!

Ah yes. Give me a good communist dictatorship that rules it's people with an iron fist. But, hey it's safe for us. Great place to vacation! Don't forget the Che t-shirts for the folks back home! [/quot

* Well, I know two couples that have traveled to Cuba in the last 6 months. One couple spoke English, French & Spanish. Everytime they left their hotel they were approached by people asking for money, also asking for money to protect their car. A young French couple & she was expecting a baby.

The same experience for the other couple.

Maybe it is better if you come on a cruise?

I'd like to visit someday, we'll see...

And Walt...still trying to see if I can help you with locating your badge...

When we disembarked a cruise ship in Cuba many years ago there were military armed with AK47s checking everyone out-kind of scary. I think that it's the police in SXM that need to up their patrols -like how come they're not patrolling Welfare Rd looking for these guys every night? Same reason that they don't patrol the parking lots at the beaches I guess.

Personally speaking I have not seen many police vehicles on the dutch side of the island but we have seen many gendarme vehicles often driving across the pkg lot at Orient beach & many going up & down the road to friar's bay while we are sitting on our balcony & through Grand CAse & Marigot. We have also seen many of the local French police as well. I feel there is a big presence on the French side IMHO. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Walt, sorry to hear about this and hope you are feeling better physically and emotionally. We don't rent a car when we stay at Club O. We rarely go to the Dutch side and for dinners out we use a taxi. Exception is walking to Orient Village to Le Piment. We go before dark and depending on when we are ready to go back we either walk on the beach (before 9 pm and when we can see others walking) or get a taxi.

Of course I agree for more police to act to assist the tourists & the local people, protection for everyone from these thugs. People who live & work hard to put food on their table for their family, people who are vacationing on the island.

When I'm out running errands, paying Carib Serve, car insurance, taxes, NV etc. I speak & deal with many people living here that are not happy.

It's the big wigs that have to step up & do something that's for sure.

I worry about my family back in the states as well.

Crime happens in all countries and unfortunately when it occurs in SXM; people think badly of the Island but in truth ; the police have been very active trying to prevent crime and many times have thwarted potential problems through their control stops and profiling. Yes Profiling as the police here do profile. Very few tourists ever get stopped in controls.

I travel the world, lived in one of the biggest cities in the world most of my life.

Thank you for the information & I see what is happening here everyday
with my own eyes.

Try harder is the point... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the support, feeling much better physically but still haven't decided if we will go back. Maybe the Police are trying but dealing with them you get the feeling that they could careless. Thanks everyone

Where do you think would be a good place to stay that is Safe? Club O or Grand Case beach Club maybe? Open to suggestions.

I wanted to jump in with 2 comments - your wife watching you being attacked plus seeing them try to open the car door, must have been horrible for her. Also have to congratulate you on your courage to come forward and let us know about this crime aginast you.

If the local police are so numbed by a tourist being attacked and mugged, then that concerns me as to a bigger picture

J&B

Orient village, check it out

where ever there is a presence of large numbers of uneducated jobless fatherless directionless young people crimes of the moment will occur-- be it st.martin detroit london or rio----and many tourists---AND LOCALS--are preceived as ''easy marks''by these feral youths---always be aware and alert--always.

got to this thread late - ditto Walt on what everyone has said. Really sucks, and hope you guys quickly recover mentally and physically.
Agree with Hat. We have stayed in Orient Village 10 or so times, and I don't think I have ever heard of anyone having a problem there (although I'm sure there will be a lot of responses to this). And we have personally never felt at all unsafe, going from our condos to the village or to the beach when Kakao or someone has a night event. We don't walk on the beach at night, no use inviting trouble.

This is something I can't even imagine happening to us. So sorry! Hope you are feeling better!

The indifference of the authorities is shameful!

It seems like Walt did everything right--he was aware. He parked at a good hour in a busy familiar place and even had his wife lock the doors. What more could he have done--drove around the parking lot 2 or 3 times???

Wasn't anyone aware of what was happening? Just too crazy! We have been going to SXM since the 80's and are getting tired of being nervous when going out at night.

Same with us. Always have stayed in Orient Village and spend most of our time on French side. Is it my imagination that it seems like crime is much higher on Dutch side?

Yes, it's your imagination.

I can't speak for Club O and that's okay since others have, but I would suggest Grand Case Beach Club is possibly one of the safest places on the island. As I recall our stay there, your vehicle has to be buzzed in by someone at the main office. I know there was staff all around the grounds all day long and at night there were security people on the grounds all night. We never felt at all unsafe while there and truth be known, there are many other places we've stayed around the island I can't say that about. I wouldn't hesitate to walk the grounds there at night and I won't even do that at my own timeshare anymore.

Another very safe property, so I've been told and having only dined but never personally stayed there, is LaSamana but be prepared to pay dearly for the added sense of security.

And as a general comment and addressed to no one in particular, I don't have facts to support the following but over many years it seems to be the case.........

As to which side of the island has more crime, please, it's one very small island with open borders. Much of the crime is crime of opportunity and it happens all over and on both sides.

I don't know if the changes ever happened but there was much talk about the need for improved cooperation between the police of both sides of the island because too many Frenchside residents were committing crimes on the Dutch side of the island and fleeing across the border and likewise, people from the Dutch side doing the same thing, with the police from both sides failing to cooperate with each other to apprehend them.

Another thing I've gathered over the years is the French are more apt to deal with apprehended criminals swiftly and more severely while all too often it seems as though the Dutch court system seems to mete out more slaps on the wrist than dire punishment if one can believe the things written in the island papers. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Divi Little Bay is worth a look - water on three sides and a gatehouse make for a secure and scenic location.

Good suggestion, Bobcat. I don't know why but I never seem to think about either Divi or the Belair but I can't really recall hearing any negative comments about these properties beyond them being 'remote' and who's to say that might not be a good thing?! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

We've stayed at both GCBC and Club O, and felt safe at both places. Both are gated, and have security. However, "safe" is a relative term, and both are on the beach, giving access that way. We can't let the bad guys win (re: staying away), but Walt's experience is scary.

There is really no such thing as a "safe place" anymore. Many of these thugs gain access to properties via the water late at night and have never been caught. It is easy to walk up the beach also and gain entry to villas etc... Many people here have experienced crime because of this. Being aware of your surroundings "helps" but it will not stop things from happening. Unfortunately this island is not the paradise it once was and this goes for many other places as well!My heart goes out to the good island people who have no choice but to live their lives always trying to avoid being attacked by crime. We love SXM and feel sad to hear of so many unfavorable happenings in recent years.

Yes Pat, Belair and Divi are both good choices due to their location, getting in and out is more restrictive than at many other properties.

It seems that most of the issues arise after you leave a property and go to a restaurant, casino or market. That is why we started staying in the village and cabbing over to Grand Case one or two nights. We usually skip the rental car as well. Granted we do not have any interest in the Dutch side and I know a lot of you have your favorite haunts all over the island. We do the beach, eat, sleep, repeat kind of stay.

So the list of so called "safe" places have been mentioned. Now what, stay in you safe hotel or timeshare afraid to go out to dinner at night in fear of being mugged? That's what happened to Walt and many others. May as well go to Jamaica, which by the way is very beautiful. Just a matter of time when SXM will be mostly all inclusive.

I made this statement on Big Bob's Day 12 thread when talking about crime at Pic Paradise. In this day and age of Boards like this and other Social Media, word travels quickly:


You don't want SXM to be Jamaica. The attraction has always been the ability to leave your resort or hotel. See multiple beaches, eat in various restaurants, see 2 similar but different cultures. 2 Countries in 1 short drive. They need to wake up or else face the loss of tremendous revenue.

They being the authorities on both sides of the island.

That's precisely what we did…go to Jamaica that is. After 20 consecutive years of going to St.Martin, in May 2011 we decided that St. Martin had become too expensive and too dangerous compared to our first trip in 1991. Although we had never been a victim of crime in St. Martin, we had been in some situations we felt were a bit "dodgy" and decided to move on. You can do all the right things like Walt did and still be a victim. Doesn't matter if you are military, martial arts, etc., you can still be "blind-sided".

We now go to all-inclusive in Jamaica that has everything we want…beach, pool, hot tub, good food, multiple restaurants and lots of good entertainment into the wee hours.

John <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

We went to San Souci in Jamacia this past April. It was nice. They would drive you to restaurants or attractions if you wanted.

Well said island gem........we have been here a week thus far and have spent a mix of evenings on both sides. I will say we have felt more comfortable on the French side. Grand case was very busy and very calm last night. The gendarmes have been everywhere (orient village, mount Vernon lower parking lot, anse marcel, grand case, Marigot) patrolling in trucks. Don't remember seeing any police on the Dutch side thus far. Lots of rent a cops at all maho places.

Except for the person staying there who reported on this forum that his laptop and other articles were stolen from the room.

And the year that there was a scam by Thrifty where tail light assemblies were removed then they billed the customer when the car was returned and put them back in again---all under the watchful eyes of security. It was said the cameras were out of commission during that time.

So far when we've stayed at GCBC have not heard of any problems.

Unfortunately, crime happens everywhere.

Orient village square (restaurant area Le Piment etc.) seems very safe to us at night as this seems to be where all the French families stay. There is live music, arts/craft/jewelry flea market, children playing. We feel less safe in Grand Case at night, but never had a problem in 8 years. The Dutch side with the casinos, nightclubs, gentle men's clubs, seems less safe.

It is not your imagination which is why we don't frequent the Dutch side - and I anticipate getting flamed for that response. Wouldn't wander around Marigot at night but feel safe pretty much everywhere else on the French side <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Us too!!

I felt safe on Club O grounds.