TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands Chinese company will build airport extension

Just announced that a Chinese company was the low bidder on the airport extension. 150M They will use Chinese workers, trucks and materials. This should be interesting in that locals will not be building the airport. I guess they will not be paying into the NHI medical funds either or BVI social security. I suspect this project will not be over budget. Don't know where the money will come from. Interesting times. Hope Southwest comes in with their new purchase of 500 more planes. That would change things for the better in the BVI. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Good idea, always go with the low bidder, because stuff like this never goes over budget LOL

Guess if you can't buy it made in China have China come make it for you...

There is no reason a contract like this should go over budget. Should be a fixed price contract. NO overruns.
No excuses.

I have not kept track of what the plans are since I figured it would probably not happen in my life time.

Anyone give me a quick summary or point me to a summary of the runway extension plans? I assume they extend farther into Trellis bay? How long of a runway?

Last plan I saw was an extension into Trellis Bay on pilings with water flowing between the pilings so Trellis Bay would not be stagnant. Something like 7000 ft (3700 ft now) enough for a 737,321, 757 etc

Right.... A government project that went over budget? Never happens...

The pilings plan was ditched long ago - too expensive. They are just going to pile a lot of rubble and pave over it.

The contractor sold the government on the pilings plan and then ditched it after it was approved. As mentioned above, it was too expensive to drive pilings into that deep of water.

That's a lot of rubble. Where are they going to get the fill?
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

What is the planned completion date?

I think Sage Mtn's elevation may have to drop by several hundred feet to get all the fill! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

In the spirit of Sir Richard's green mission, he's offered as much lemur poop as they'll take off his hands. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

SW will generally not operate a market unless it can merit at least 4 flights per day. That is why you don't see them in STT. The 737 versions they operate would also have restrictions that could limit payload.

Just like the sand on "nice" US beaches and Disney World. The stuff will be barged in.

It is also believed that the Chinese bid was low becaue they are expected to provide their own workers, equipment where practical and even allegedly their own rocks for the project.

Whereas, while IDL Group, Sir Robert McAlpine Holdings and local partner ADC bid was much higher their plans were to use all local workers, equipment, truckers and other tools, therefore keeping the money in the territory.

Or take it off Beef Island so the Chinese guy who owns it can then build a golf course. Great fodder for conspiracy theorists!

Too bad I don't have the time to wordsmith this article to start a conspiracy theory.
Getting on a plane to go down island.

http://www.bviplatinum.com/news.php?articleId=1355772237&ref=

All Chinese project and supplying their own fill, huh? Well, they have plenty of experience doing this kind of thing in the Spratly Islands. I predict a localized environmental disaster not only from the toxic crap they will probably have in their fill but Trellis Bay will be forever altered and will silt up to where it is no longer a viable anchorage without a regular dredging operation (assuming one is still allowed to anchor there and that they would want to). I hope I am wrong.

George, seems like Delta and American have 4 flights a day from STT
Also seems like the ramp workers are all from one company not the airlines.

A 7000 foot runway design and build project is a small project for this $60B in annual revenue company that builds ports, terminals, roads, bridges, railway, tunnel, civil work design and construction, capital dredging and reclamation dredging, container crane, heavy marine machinery, large steel structure and road machinery manufacturing, and international project contracting... with over 100,000 employees.

[i]"China Communications Construction Company (CCCC)is the largest port construction and design company in China, the largest dredging company in China and the third largest in the world."

Seems like when they get the Beef Island project done, they could come over to Virgin Gorda and lengthen and pave the Virgin Gorda Airport. Should not cost very much!!
Virgin Gorda provides a lot of money to the BVI and does not get much back.
And then with the extra paving material they could pave the road to my villa.

Having been through the prolonged/arduous process (as a UK citizen, BVI resident) of obtaining a BVI work permit, will be interested to learn how Chinese workers will procure same...

True however SW really would only serve it from FLL. In addition they dislike international because the costs are so much higher and they can't quick turn the aircraft. The current international they are flying is almost all inherited from AirTran. In addition SW is the most heavily unionized airline in the US. The rampers just negotiated a new contract limiting outsourcing.

I would be very surprised if the BVI has any interest in Southwest. The primary goal is multiple flights each day between Miami and EIS, followed by direct flights from the NYC area, along with a runway certified for a wide spectrum of fully loaded private FAA 135 aircraft. The RFP/RFI's list G5's in specifically. The better travelers need the ability to get in and get out any day with little notice. Go the the airport and leave.

A flight from NY to Beef would be interesting. Priced right, that would probably be our first choice.

if we could get a direct from Texas (Houston, DFW) to Beef, the West Coast would be happy, happy, happy!

Don't understand why you believe the BVI would not be real happy to have Southwest, though I suspect George is correct in his doubts. SWA has hubs in Tampa and FLL and would be no less convenient than Miami. it would would add a lot of one stop service to the BVI from many areas that currently have two stop flights to EIS or one stop to STT and a ferry. If only served by one carrier, you can wager that the flights will not be reasonable compared to STT and SJU. If not full..the service won't last long. I question how much demand there will be for midweek flights.

I am still afraid there is a real posibility it will be a $150 mil Field of Dreams and Shoeless Joe is not going to show up.

The market is those that are less price sensitive. Starting with working business professionals. Lawyers, consultants, CPA's, auditors inside and outside representing a whole host of more sophisticated investors. The typical Southwest flyer is not the intended BVI customer. The key to success is not price. The key to success is a constituent daily airlift morning and night that allows demanding business and pleasure travelers to get on and off the island anytime they want. That means flights to MIA first and foremost, then flights to a major US Northeast HUB like JFK or Newark. The BVI may end up subsidizing those flights at the end of the day.

$100+/- million for the hospital, $80+ million for the Pier Park. The only possible way they could come even remotely close to $150 million for the airport is to keep every BVI contractor,vendor and politician away from the project. Doubt that is going to happen.

Sorry, but if you think an "elite" commercial service that is not price sensitive will fill planes and be a success you are suggesting indeed that you believe in "build it and they will come philosophy" as mentioned...and I agree with that poster that Shoeless Joe ain't showing up. There is a reason there are a load of seats in coach and only a few up front. You are
not going to fill airliners w first class pricing to a Caribbean destination. The net jet crowd will like the air strip and would also keep the elite service you mention from filling seats. I think you way over estimate the North American use of the off shore banking in the BVI. It is not as valuable to US companies/citizens as one saw in the recent dump of off shore documents stolen from the big law firm, almost none from US. Time will tell ..I wouldn't want to invest in the airport or a non price sensitive carrier . I suspect if comes to be there will be mostly PM landings just like STT to allow a carrier to aggregate (typed aggravate in auto correct..very accurate) passengers to the departure hub before taking off mid day and turning around quickly back to the states.
. I don't see night arrivals and early morning daily departures like STT in the cards. But time will tell. My fear is that taxes and fees will continue to skyrocket to pay for an albatross.

There are lots of issues with this expansion. I have not read anything about the rest of the infrastructure required to support large aircraft. I doubt the Ramps and taxiways will support the weight of 737 class aircraft. Currently most aircraft don't fuel there however large jets will have to fuel as they can't land with excess fuel for the return leg. 5000 gallons of fuel per flight would be a average. 10 flights a day would need 50,000 gallons barged in each day. You need extensive storage facilities for that fuel. Take a look at the tanks at STT next time you are there. The current price for Jet Fuel is 5.50 a gallon at EIS. Airlines are paying about 1.50 a gallon in the US right now. Even with the big discounts airlines get I suspect the price would still be 4 bucks a gallon. That's going to add a large premium to fares.
If this runway does get built I would expect departure taxes to rival the UK approaching 200 dollars per passenger on top of the fuel premium. You won't see any bargin airfares out of EIS.
G

Part of the deal to gain the investment to build Nail Bay was the new hospital, the runway extension, and more. The BVI is late on meeting those commitments of the past. Offshore banking is just one part and maybe a dying part. More important to the BVI future is the investing and finance of the resorts and boat operators of all sizes. Every bit of those industries are now contingent on outside investors. Those investors and their complex insurance underwriters of all types will require easy and ready access to the BVI especially from Miami. Auditors, security specialists, HR specialist, professionally consultancies will fill many of those seats as part of the requirements to finance the future sale, maintenance, and improvement of those valuable assets. The reliable airlift of professionals is now table stakes for the BVI and the BVI finances. While Southwest may works well for millions of private travelers on most days? The better employers will not allow their employees to use Southwest for a long list of reasons way to complex to type. The lack of interline agreements is one key part and the fact that once you have a Southwest ticket you are stuck with Southwest is another. The future of BVI property values and finance is reliable MIA flights each day on AA. An East Coast hub with another major corporate employee carrier would be a plus as well. Again the key to 21st Century success is ready access to show up at the airport and leave whenever you want or must. The same is true for an investor or underwriter who wants to send a representative to the BVI right now. Without that type of reliable access the investor money and high net worth travelers will stay away. NOTE: Across the Caribbean travel is dominated by East Coast and Northeast Coast travelers. The rest of the country heads to Mexico or stops at Florida. Maybe look at the airport like a fire department. Expensive but something the modern investor will not go forward without.

Sounds like STT will be my preferred mode of travel to get to the BVI. With the numbers I see, I don't see how the airport investment will ever be paid back. I understand that there are certain travelers where cost is no object. However it is my belief that the vast amount of travelers will be cost driven. I see that in almost all all the guests that come to the villa. Only one group came with their own yacht (Yacht was brought from the states by the crew for the guests to enjoy). This was one group out of hundreds.
It would be interesting to me to see how many guests of Little Dix came with their own plane to EIS. I would bet it is a small number.
I hope that with the airport expansion, flights from Miami are successful as I will be able to use that service. I do not think that the service will be successful if the costs are high. You cannot fill a plane with high end persons.

Interesting times for the BVI.

I do not believe for a second this was ever about "bargain airfares". The primary purpose is to allow the traveler to get on and off the island by commercial jet carrier whenever they want. One quote that those that know use is "2.5 hours to Miami in place of 12 hours today". For the busy executive that matters, to the employee and her travel office or high new worth traveler that does not feel well that matters. The BVI lacks the hotel rooms and always will to support the budget traveling masses. To the financiers who will rebundle and service a $500 million debt package for all the BVI infrastructure it will matter. If you want cheap airfare and bargain island travel look to Mexico and the DR. The future BVI travelers will fit the profile of the Nail Bay players, the Peter Island visitors, and the very high end Little Dix Bay when it reopens. Those visitors are not shopping airfare. They simply want to get in and out whenever they want to get in and out and they demand the same for their family and guests who come to visit the villa.

The design has not even begun. The concept is a design build where the winning turn key contractor will design and build at least the following:

i. Extension of existing Runway into the sea
ii. Passenger Terminal Expansion and upgrade
iii. Aircraft Ramp Expansion (G-5 aircraft, RJ’s; A-320; 737-800; other private jets)
iv. Sewage Treatment Plant and Fire Fighting system relocation
v. New FBO Facility
vi. Pleasure craft water access-excavated channel
vii. Inter-Island Ferry/Transport service upgrade/relocation
viii. Trellis Bay Welcome and Visitor Center (Transportation Intermodal Center)
1. Crafts and gift shop
2. Indigenous arts and craft manufacturing & museum
3. Live flora indigenous to Beef Island (lignum vitae stand of trees)
ix. Traffic Reorganization
x. Car-park upgrade

The way I read all that. The plan is an airport you can drive up to and leave along with a modern safe boat dock that will allow ferries and yacht tenders to reliably and safely bring passengers to the airport from the out islands by water.

Some very rough high finance numbers. If the BVI can bundle all the infrastructure and current debt into a single new $500 Million bundle that can easily be amortized into $25M per year or less. $25M in annual debt cost spread across 300,000 annual visitors is less than $100 per visitor. Not all visitor will pay the same. With better emergency health care, much more reliable easy ingress and egress, better water and sewer plus roads. The BVI high end traveler mix will grow. That will allow better finance options for the smaller operators who want to sell, grow, or simply improve.

Other than the jet noise and sacrifice of the current Trellis Bay this is really a finance and operations no brainier. For many in Trellis Bay life will improve as it changes. For those on boats who have crew who want to come late or leave early life will get much better.

Balderdash. . The nail bay Marina hotel and artificial reef was a flaky idea that fell of its own weight . It had nothing to do with flying investors or anyone else into the BVI from Miami.LOL. Scrub was a big project. It went broke, not because accountants couldn't get there on one hop out of Miami, too few guests wanting to spend a vacation on their rock. Expensive direct air service would not change that.

Since his organization is in the news right now take Trump Tower hotel in Chicago, it would well be argued that that one hotel would have more visitors and revenue than any new projects combined after an airport is developed. The amount of traffic from the headquarters in NYC to the Trump Hotel in Chicago for business reasons is miniscule.
Little Dix Bay was owned by Rosewood, you can wager that there was not anything even close to an official from Rosewood stateside headquarters physically going to Little Dix Bay for business reasons every week.
The reason I believe this keeps being pushed is the Owner of Oil Nut Bay development and back in the day George, fired former manager and promoter of the defunct and silly nail bay project, wanted access for private jets for guests. They wanted the government to underwrite the infrastructure allowing extremely wealthy guests convenience while the locals and more "common" tourists picked up the bill. Scheduled service had less to do with their plans. A friend working there to.d me about a Saudi who came to Oil Nut with boatloads of his own food and items and an entourage for a two week stay. Having private jet access to EIS would greatly increase these sorts of guests..same with those renting guana and Necker and Branson's stuff on Mosqito.
It's great if you can have others pay the infrastructure bill so your business thrives.

Haven't heard this topic in years. Are you the same poster under a different name that promoted this plan years ago on TTOL?

I don't believe there are enough of the high end travelers you mention to support large aircraft operations on the airline side. Flights would have to be heavily subsidized. Many in that class of traveler would arrive by private aircraft.
If the BVI government were serious about this and wanted to keep costs more reasonable there are several new aircraft types that could operate to the US off a 5000 foot runway. The Bombardier C100/300 or the reengined E195 would both work. The costs would be dramatically lower.
G

I agree with you Will. You and I both have villas on VG so understand what our guests are looking for and will pay for.
Don't know who Stormjib is but he seems to be a business type that has a vested interest in part of this deal. Stormjib, please identify your self.
Thanks

I am just a semi retired once major business traveler, global business manager, father, soon to be grandfather with decades of BVI and other global boat fun. Each day the kids get older and world more complex the more critical it is for myself and increasingly my guests to get in and out when each individual or their boss thinks they must get in or out. When you are spending $> than 1000 per day for fun airfare of 600 or 900 is truly not that big of factor for the travelers the BVI hopes to attract. Airlines operate at costs between 10 cents and 15 cents per seat per mile plus a long list of taxes and fees. The "bargains" many search for near or below those costs are empty excess capacity seats some deeper pocket business or high wealth player is paying for. The only way the BVI will ever see "cheap seats" is with extra capacity the airline discounts to get something for that ultimately is paid for by others or BVI government subsidy. To be clear there is known business science and the laws of physics that determine how much it cost to run each plane per hour and each pound of payload human or cargo on it. By the way the same is true with the charter boats. The "deals" are excess capacity that some enjoy at the expense of those funding the asset or paying the full rate during other periods. Do the math on what the parents or grandparents are paying to charter entire large boats and the new villas for 15 days for family gatherings. When you consider a house in the Hamptons or Jersey shore can easily cost $10M even $50M the renting of a nice boat or villa to invite your family and friends to come and go as they please for a couple of weeks or a month is relatively inexpensive even with $1,000 airfare. Little Dix Bay will want well more than $1,000 per night for the refurbished property. Those customers will demand to get in and out without any risk, delay, or hassle. The only solution to the BVI future is their own 21st Century runway or some incredible partnership with STT and a ferry dock right there at the airport with C&I done with zero hassle on the ferries running every hour to each of the BVI Islands. There seems to be no interest from St. Thomas on that partnership. STT is already a zoo and terrible end to vacation on some Saturday afternoons. So the BVI will go it alone. Sure some will keep using STT, just like some use Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport to get to DC. For those that time and hassle avoidance matters Reagan and Dulles are the answer.

"Many in that class of traveler would arrive by private aircraft."

You bet and the runway clearly has those 1% in mind. But those types also have friends, family, business associates who come and go before, during, and after their visit on commercial. Some of the group may come in with the principle on a private jet but in most cases some of the group will return early, come late, or go to a different direction on the globe by commercial. Pick your favorite very rich person with jet access. They are not traveling with everyone in the group on the way in and out for a list of reasons way to long to type. Others will not go anywhere and in some cases are not allowed by their employee contract to go anywhere where a FAA 135 air ambulance cannot come to pick them up. Again the modern reliable runway is table stakes for future BVI property values and local employment.

You sounds like some of the anti-GMO idiots who say that anyone pro-GMO is obviously a paid "Monsatan shill". People can disagree with you just because they disagree with you.