TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands Homeaway/VRBO scam

Want to make you aware of a scam that the new owners of Homeaway/VRBO (Expedia) have instituted. They are adding a "service" fee which all goes to them, not the owners of a villa. The fee is 4-10% of the villa rental fee. The only way to avoid this fee is to work with the villa owner direct, so if you find a villa you want on the Homeaway/VRBO sites, contact the villa owner directly and work with them. Do NOT book thru Homeaway/VRBO as then you will be paying the "service" fee as well as a credit card fee of another 3% There is talk of a class action lawsuit for this scam. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

I really haven't used VRBO and Homeaway either from a homeowners point of view and the renters. How do they get paid for the service they provide? Does the homeowner pay them an annual fee or something?

disclaimer: As we do not rent our villa through VBRO/Homeaway....

We were talking with some other owners who own on Jost and do go through VBRO during our trip down earlier this month. They indicated they pay an annual fee that is not cheap. They are frustrated at the change to say the least. And as indicated above, they are suggesting renters contact them directly to rent to avoid the "service" fee.

Wow, glad I saw this as we're looking for Villas right now.

Homeowner pays them an annual fee around $400. They also work on a commission basis but that is very expensive for more expensive properties. However when Homeaway adds a $450 "service" fee for each rental is it really BIG BUCKS.

CRC is on VRBO..we pay an annual fee but Robin takes bookings direct from clients at [email]crc@vom.com.[/email] We have never used VRBO for anything but putting our website up..nor will we be doing that now!

I know that there are a lot of villa owners that are up in arms at this situation. I 'heard' that Homeaway and VBRO were removing properties from their service if they found out the owner was renting the property themselves. Is that correct?

We have two reservations with VRBO units and have not seen any unusual fees or credit card charges. One unit I dealt directly with the owner. The other unit I paid through Paypal via VRBO. No extra charges have come through. I hope they don't try to charge something extra when I make my final payment.

I BELIEVE it's based on when you made the reservation.

Just happened to me <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Sick.gif" alt="" />

See what happens, calls are in process.

Now THAT is not right!!! Especially since many or most places have cancellation penalties once you get around final payment time..

Does it stink that they have changed their TOS? Sure. I don't know that I would call it a scam though. They know that after years of service they have a customer base and a captive audience that are willing to use their services. I am sure their PR statement will be something to the effect that "by booking directly with VRBO both the listing client and booking parties will have VRBO working for them if an issue arrises, etc, etc". I would imagine that more people will try to deal directly with the owners and it will be interesting to see how that plays out. Personally, I have only booked directly through VRBO once and that was very recently and the property owner is a close friend so he dropped his rate significantly anyway, so I don't really know if I paid any fees. In dozens of other VRBO transactions I have dealt directly with the owners.

I was responding to leeguice, who apparently is being charged more now than they agreed to when they made the booking. THAT is not right. Yes, any company can change their TOS, but they should not be able to change a contract retroactively.

Carol - Agreed.
Interesting reading;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomeAway

It would appear that Expedia is wanting to own basically all of the VRBO type ST rental services, that is until someone gets tired of the fee/commission increases and a new site is born.

Edited to say; if Air Bnb ever went public and eventually settled at a reasonable PPS it may be a good holding as eventually Expedia/Homeaway would probably go after them.

Ok, they have another issue. They offer renter insurance so if you damage a villa, the insurance will pay BUT the damage has to be purely accidental so if you have a party and do damage to the villa that is not accidental and they will not pay. So bottom line the owner of the villa takes a risk with this insurance if they do not pay.
As a result I will not accept their insurance in lieu of a monetary damage deposit.

Carol, I have set up my villa (and many others have also) so that you CANNOT book thru Home Away.(Book It Now versus Request to Book). Book It Now allows Homeaway to add their "service fee" as well as collect another 3% for use of their credit card system. All leads go to me and I collect all funds. I will not allow anyone to collect my income and keep it until they release it to me. Another issue I found out is that if you book a villa thru the homeaway site, they keep the funds until the rental period and then send the funds to the villa owner.
Homeaway has become very GREEDY.

OK, being a villa owner is becoming ever more difficult, it seems.

Thorsten, you're a bit late to this party. They announced it months ago, and implemented it in February. Expedia paid $3.9 Billion for HomeAway, and they want to make their money back. For months, Brian Sharples, the HA CEO had been complaining that their "take rate" was too low, relative to AirBNB and other sites.

Not only have they implemented the booking fee, which they receive when the booking is made, they have added something called "Best Match". It is even more insidious. They arrange the sort order according to an algorithm which lists properties according to the searcher's greatest likelihood of booking, what they called "conversion rate". Properties that are already booked for the dates specified drop off the search results. So even if a guest's dates might be flexible, they won't see your property. If a searcher doesn't give dates, they look to see where he is located, assume he will behave like other people in his area, and show him places available during dates searched by others in his geographical location. Pretty scary, really.

Other sites do not receive paid subscriptions, which, with VRBO and other HA sites, range from $400 to over $1500 for platinum listings with regional bundles. Folks paid big bucks and are not getting any inquiries or bookings, or far less than they got before. As you say, the terms were changed during the course of the contract and without notice. So there are now some class action lawsuits.

Upon renewal, it looks like everyone will be forced into the new system, like it or not.

Do not be tempted to put something in your copy about "contact us directly to avoid the fee", because they are using automated searches to find those listings and block them. The best defense is to upgrade your personal web site and use the unique name of your property in the heading of your listing. That way, if someone finds "Gorda Cove" or whatever, they can Google that name and find your personal web site. Another defense when your listing expires is to switch to PPB, which will keep retain your listing and reviews.

This is just a synopsis of the situation. Lots more details are available at
https://community.homeaway.com/community/us.

There's always Airbnb.

Ratman,
I was aware that they were going to change and add some fees.
At this point in time, Homeaway/VRBO are charging the most and far more than any other site. I have been with Homeaway and VRBO since 2003.
For me, I do not allow Homeaway to calculate my rate as I don't provide a rate for their system. I do have a full set of rates in the rates dropdown. I just am not interested in having them do anything for me except to provide advertising for my villa. I don't want to use CC's. I accept a check and PayPal. They are playing games with their customers, the villa owners. In the end I believe they will get screwed, as they are getting close to having a monopoly, which is illegal and they will get broken up.
No company should be allowed to "control" a market. Since they have bought up many smaller companies and put together a large company controlling a market their risk is high.
I spend MANY hours working on my web site, adjusting it to allow the search engines in finding my villa.

I have been quite successful and don't intend on some company screwing with me. I would estimate that about 50% of business comes from Homeaway/VRBO. Airbnb has been useless, brings in bottom feeders. Booking.com has brought me only 1 customer. The rest of the web sites have brought me no customers.

HA has been a monopoly for individual homeowners, particularly those with higher-end properties. However, AirBNB has won the name recognition game, especially with younger travelers. HA covets ABB's "take rate", so they devised this "service charge", which they aren't even honest about, letting guests believe the homeowner is receiving it. Now Expedia owns HA. Don't hold your breath waiting for anti-monopoly action. Governments seem more intent on extracting as much revenue as possible from short-term rentals, or in some cases banning them as a public nuisance.

In some locations, local tourist promotion organizations have been effective in setting up rental sites specific to that area. That is certainly something the BVIs could do to promote tourism, although the government seems more focused on bringing in cruise ship hordes. Instead of hotel projects - like Prospect Reef - they could build a more effective rental network.

The other ominous event is that HA's Australian site has begun urging owners to forgo direct contact with guests in favor of all inquiries and responses going through the HA system. Some active owners are convinced this will be introduced in the US within a year; owners will no longer receive the names or contact information for their enquirers. That explains the guest review system they are implementing: no need to vet your guests if another owner said they were okay. Pretty obvious BS to me.

Anyway, all owners should spend some time perusing the HA community board. Tom Hale, the COO, left last week, and they are supposed to make a big announcement this Thursday, April 28.

Airbnb dose not allow homeowners from getting the E-Mail addresses or telephone numbers of a renter or the rentee. I understand that, as they do not charge the homeowner to be on the site. They need to make money. In my experience this does not work well for me as rentors want to ask questions and speak to the homeowner. Airbnb does not allow that. All in all the Airbnb model does not work for me or the person renting my villa. Examples are questions about ferries, rental cars, where to buy food, scuba diving. Trying to answer those types of questions require a telephone call not E-Mails. Also Airbnb keeps the rental funds until the rentor is in the villa. Just does not work for me.
So far and I checked yesterday Homeaway/VRBO still works for me and gets the information to my prospective guests.

You might call HA customer service and ask how long direct contact will remain in effect. Those who have done so have been told through 2016 - no promises beyond that. HA is using "analytics" to determine "service fees" they are missing through "leakage" (think that's their term); i.e., owners using direct contact to encourage guests to book outside the system and avoid the fee.

You should disabuse yourself of the notion that VRBO's changes are to benefit you or your guests. They aren't. They are to increase the "take rate" and pay off the $3.9 Billion!

Of course no contact doesn't work for higher-end properties in special places. On Great Camanoe, our houses come with a boat and car. Who is going to rent to someone without asking "Tell me about your motor boating experience" or checking to see if they have drunk driving convictions? Not many, at least not the prudent ones!

There are distinct differences between HA and AirBNB properties. Rather than taking advantage of that, HA seems to want to emulate ABB and their success. As I said before, owners need to prepare for a future where they are not dependent on HA.

Thanks for your informative thoughts. I might also mention that Flipkey/Tripadvisor is working well for me. No service fees. Easy site to set up and I am getting reservations through them. I have found a new site, well thought out and it has had 39 views in 2 months

I may be missing something but it seemed to me VRBO was already being pretty aggressive about preventing outside contact. I used them for a rental in FL in January, and there were documents that needed to be sent to the owner re condo board approval of the rental. For some reason VRBO was garbling the document when sent through their system. It took some subterfuge to get him my email address so we could communicate directly. They were stripping email addresses from anything that went through them.

Was it a Pay Per Booking listing or a paid listing? They are stricter with the former to be sure they get their fee.

That one was a 'book now' one. I suppose the ones I'd done with them in the past were the other type, but I never really noticed the distinction until now.

We pay a listing fee to homeaway - but unfortunately the villa rate schedule they provide does not permit the fine tuning we do on a per bedroom basis. Thorny is right if you find a villa you like - look up the villa owner's page and contact the owner directly.

We've never had a rental through VRBO as VRBO simply directs the inquiry to us and we handle it direct in any event - they don't collect for us.

We've never had a problem with any renter nor I hope has any renter had a problem with us - been renting direct since 2003 and only started with VRBO in 2012.

Not really - just the middlemen you have to worry about.

I know airbnb isn't the answer for everyone, but we've been renting our guest cottage out in the summer/fall with airbnb since last September. So far it's been great! They take a nominal fee for each booking. I can decline renters at any time for whatever reason I'd like. Once the reservation is booked by the guest, we can each see each other's email and telephone numbers. I like the review system too. Each party has 14 days to write a review. You don't see the other person's review until both are posted or until at least the 14 days have expired. So not only do the guests get to review my accomodations, I get to review them as a guest. So far, we're booked every weekend + some in June & July!

Sweeping changes today from Homeaway/VRBO Homeaway/VRBO changes

Most notable change is now you need to pay an additional $150/year not to use their bookable feature , but they still drop you down in the rankings if you do no use their bookable feature. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Yes..got it too...I will still not let them book...its worked out well with Robin at crc@vom.com for us..

I agree, that way you get to control your money. The only problem I have is that when they do the automatic calculation which they show online, they add in their fee. So I have had to reduce my weekly rate on HA/VRBO to allow the automatic calculation to be approximately accurate. What a pain!

we owned a condo and rented it thru vrbo ( sold it/ closed on it today!) and we paid for a platinum level listing $1100 for several years- this yr they changed everything when expedia bought vrbo- many many owners are furious- the new one level fee might be 400 when you renew or for new subscribers)

Maybe not exactly on topic, but I manage a place owned by my 92 year old mother in FL. We have used VRBO for years with no issues. Yes, the yearly fee of about $400 hurt, but they did what we needed. Then, last year, they started blocking email addresses and phone numbers between us and potential renters. I guess they were trying to force us to use their booking service. Then they started charging the fee to the renters. I dropped them. Whoever the new owners are, they are killing what was a good business.
Lew

i just read they are going to one price for all subscriptions.....and the way to get to be in the top rankings is to follow all of the new rules ( online booking and fees and etc..) there is a page on facebook called say no to the new vrbo fees- check it out to see what owners are saying and doing about the new rules

I would encourage all our regular TTOLers to contact Robin direct..discounts as always..TKS