TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Help with understanding a check!

This is after the fact of course, but restaurant charges are a common topic on this forum. I found this check interesting for several reasons.......

1st, the exchange rate on this day was probably around $1.00-1.12 Euro and our bill shows $45.60 or 38.00 Euro, that math doesn't work even with a slight delay in exchange rate recalc?

Total food is 22 Euro, Drinks 16 totaling 38.00, but itemized check shows "Montant HT (4.00%)= 36.54 and TGCA 1.46...what are those items?

Some on TTOL have said they hadn't seen a bill showing "service non comprise", here's one.

How would you have tipped on this French example? by the way I thought the prices were very reasonable however.

Don't necessarily have the answers. While the bank exchange rate may be 1.12, you'd have to find somewhere to do that.

If the restsurant wants to charge 1.20 or still has their merchant processing programmed at that rate, then you are at their mercy for what they want to charge.

That said, if you got out of FBBC for under $46, that's amazing. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />
When we spend the day there,it's an investment.

Hi, Beerman, if you read what's below then look at your bill it should make sense.

The TGCA is a tax applicable on the entire territory of the Community of St. Martin in the French West Indies since August 1, 2010. It is due to local economic operations , including sales and services. Are involved all stakeholders in the economy of the island, businesses, commerce and the professions. The amount of 4% on sales is donated to the Community in order to enable it to increase the budget and finances. It is always charged . Are exempt import of goods , sales of prescription drugs, bread, water supply, and the goods when exported from the island except on the Dutch side that remains taxable.

4% of the Montant HT 36.54 is 1.46; the two added together totals 38.00 Euros.

The exchange rate from Euros to dollars is another thing. Could be what BeachKitten suggested, the merchant charging what they want for the exchange rate.

I have found that if I use US dollars (cash) to buy anything in Marigot the vendors usually want a few more dollars.

That bill from the Friars bay Beach cafe is totally legitimate... 4% TGCA included in the price but shown separately is correct. The rate of the US$ cannot be based on the fixing, on Feb 25, 2015, it was close to 1.14 (1.369) therefor 1.20 exchange rate when you consider the French bank fee and the eventual extra charges for the business, it's about that.

Birdwatcher is right.
Now, to answer the question "how would you have tipped?", the answer is: Since 1987, French restaurants and bars have the obligation to include service in their prices.

The mention of "service non compris" is misleading. Sorry to disagree with you Iall but the bill is not legitimate on this aspect.

If I was very pleased with the service, I would have left an extra $3. The reason being, I tip 20% in the US when the service is excellent so I do the same there.

The term "pourboire" in France aka "for drink" in English, means "have a drink on me". That's exactly the logic behind leaving a few coins on the table. Nothing to do with service which is already included in the amount charged.

By French law, the waiting staff must be paid a living wage by the employer and not depend on the generosity of the patrons to make a living, that's why the price charged already includes the compensation of the waiting staff.

Just to explain the terms, "HT" is short for "Hors Taxes" which means "without taxes", and "TGCA" is "Taxe générale sur le chiffre d'affaires" which is "Sales Tax" or "VAT".

Yep.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you plequerre, as it seems you are missing a point in the French law... The mention "service compris" only exist because there is an option of "service non compris" in the law.. otherwise it would be obviously useless to impose the mention nationwide, since law are primary made to protect national consumers and not visitor's knowledge....
The French Governement website regarding economy and restaurant business states:
"le prix net : dans les établissements où est perçu un service, le prix affiché s'entend taxes et services compris. Il doit alors être indiquée la mention "prix service compris".." which mean :"- Net price: in restaurants where service is charged, the posted price includes taxes and services included. It must be noted the word "prix service compris"... "IN RESTAURANT WHERE SERVICE IS CHARGED" means by opposition that there are some restaurants where the service is not charged and in which you must see on the menu (if the staff is being paid only on fix salary) "Service non compris" (or "service à l’appréciation de la clientèle "). The restaurant has the choice to include or not a service charge. In case of the restaurant decide to include a service charge it is because the staff is being paid daily based on the turnover of the establishment then it must appear "service compris __ %" ......
See source here bellow:

http://www.economie.gouv.fr/files/files/...ces_Ete2013.pdf

http://www.restocours.net/Legislation/commerce.htm

http://pour-vous-paris.com/v0_000034.htm

this FBBC bill is legitimate!

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Clear as a bell ......

Thank you guys for helping me understand the items on this check, I am sure I "tipped" appropriately in this case!

Some checks contained "service non-compris" some with "service compris" and some with nothing at all, nice to understand the difference.

As far as the exchange rates, specifically to restaurants, they were all about 20%. This apparently is the norm and I'll assume that anyone visiting while the euro is down should expect that fee. If anyone wants to post on any recent changes to this fee that would be interesting info.

How did the exchange rate effect my lodging? The NBBC owner calculated with the current exchange rate which was appreciated! That adds up to more than a small bar bill<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

As far as the food and drink prices go here, for us it seemed very reasonable and we "tipped" as we normally do elsewhere. If we had a great experience, which we had at the majority of places, we showed our appreciation.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

You have the right to have a different reading of the Law but all French people rightfully consider that prices in all restaurants and bars include tax and service because that's what French Law requires.

The French law also imposes restaurants and bars to pay their employees at least the minimum wage (SMIC) + benefits (retirement + healthcare).

The 2015 minimum wage in France aka SMIC, (Salaire minimum de croissance) is 9.61 euros per hour, and 1 457,52 euros for workers working 35 hours/week.

Do you really believe that some restaurants and bars could be foolish enough to not reflect this mandatory cost in their prices?

Now, let's go back to the text of the Law.

You are assuming, because the text of the "Arrete du 27 Mars 1987" stipulates "in establishments where service is perceived ........" that there could be "establishments where service is not perceived". .
There are indeed some "other establishments offering food and beverage for on-site consumption", like cafeterias, food courts and concessions where service is not perceived, and it is for this category of businesses that the Law left the door open.

At the end of the day, if you want to leave 15% or 20% of the check to your waiter when the check he gives you mentions "service non compris", that's perfectly fine with me, but personally, I don't.

Respectfully.

With all due respect I was also born in France and still live there as St Martin is integrant part of it, and you may have your own reading and interpretation of the law, but the law is that law and it says what it says.... Beside that, St Martin's restaurant are under very strong scrutiny and are subject to very frequent controls from the French authorities, I can ensure you that if it wasn't legal, you would not see it on the bill! The restaurant would be fined heavily and eventually subject to a "fermeture administrative" (closing order) if the infraction was repeated. I assume then that I am not the only one to have the right interpretation and reading of the law since the French Government seems to have exactly the same.
Whether "all French people rightfully consider that prices in all restaurants and bars include tax and service because that's what French Law requires" it is, as you rightfully stated, only a consideration and an assumption, I don't...
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

OK. Fine with me.

One last question just out of curiosity since you didn't comment on this particular point.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my contention that since French restaurants and bars, unlike their US counterparts, are legally obligated to pay their employees at least the SMIC + benefits, their prices reflect this cost so you are de-facto already paying for the service?

I do agree with this part "unlike their US counterparts, are legally obligated to pay their employees at least the SMIC + benefits, their prices reflect this cost" because ANY cost is ALWAYS reflected in the price, in any business... give me one example of business who do not reflect its cost in its price
and disagree with this one "so you are de-facto already paying for the service" ... No..... You are paying for the cost of the product! If you are paying for the service it is because that's the choice of the establishment to provide better salaries to its staff than just the 'SMIC" by including (and redistributing...) a service charge in it's price, service charge that appear as "service compris" at the bottom of the bill!
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Well, if my experience can help muddy the waters any...

When we were eating out in the Latin Quarter in Paris, the menu and receipt did say "service non compris". I asked the owner if that meant I should leave a 15%ish tip, and he said, absolutely not, as he was paying higher than minimum wage, so the waitstaff was getting their comp from enhanced salary vs service charge. When I asked about my usual 5%, he said that would be just fine. He also added that his staff preferred it that way.

Of course, this could apply only to his place, but that sure confused the heck out of me on how to tip going forward.

Wow, this is great the French can't even come to a consensuses on tipping. So there is no problem for North Americans not understanding either.

SXM??? Wendell

Montant means sum total. Compris is a form of the verb comprendre, to include.

And your point is? ... You are responding to a French person who knows what means "montant" and "compris" (du verbe comprendre .. oui , et?) <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Cruzer, that confirm what I was saying.... and plequerre didn't have the same interpretation. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Was at dreams yesterday, when received bill, on the folder it comes in it says tips can not be put on credit card. As i read that to my husband, French Women next to me just shook her head and said "no tip"! I'm very confused, asked two island residents question and they to are just as confused!!! We left 15%, no more no less.

They probably were indicating to you that a tip was not necessary as they know not to leave one and didn't plan on leaving one. Locals know better and would rather not have the playing field messed up. Credit card charges are reported as revenue. Cash, not so much plus less bookkeeping and having to break out to give servers if they do.

Aren't you happy you asked? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />: <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Kim, Dreams is on the French side so everything is suppose to be included in the final total on the bill for the meal. If you want to leave a so called "tip" (poir boire), you just leave a few extra dollars in cash in the folder with your payment. It is recommended you only leave the amount equivalent to the cost of a drink. Leaving 15% was a generous tip!

Spending the day there, and receiving beach service and excellent service when dining, appropriately requires a larger tip. We always take into consideration that the beach chairs and umbrellas are free there, so a larger tip also shows our appreciation for these as well. The notation on the folder regarding the tip is meant to inform you that if you want to leave anything extra, it must be in cash, and not added to your credit card, if you choose to use one as your form of payment.

Kim, Dreams was our official first ever dinner on SXM, I had read about the tipping etiquette here on TTOL and scratched my head when the bill came. For us, the prices were relatively normal to what we spend at home, service was good. We tipped like you, we figured we were either average if they were expecting a tip or we were a little over our norm. Didn't lose sleep, it was a great dinner out! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />

Exactly!! It's not about the money, as at the end of a trip it is peanuts as to what was spent, but I also don't like the implication as to "hey let's rip off the Americans", not saying that is the case at all, but then there shouldn't even be a mention of a tip, even if paying with cc, tip should be in cash.

French credit card terminal does not offer the option (or space option) to add a tip like the ones in the US or on the Dutch side. French Credit card terminal doesn't allow nor authorize the business to adjust the charge with a tip, the charge transaction is final when the credit card is swept and the amount is entered. I think it is just written on the bill as honest and helpful information directed toward the American Clientele that is used to another CC system, and use to tip on the CC...They certainly had to spend hours in the past to explain to their client after charging teh credit card that they could not adjust the card nor add anything on it after the swept. To gain time they inform their clients ahead so the customer is well aware of te issue and no question asked after! I bet if they were not informing the customers ahead someone would be bitching about the fact anyway! Can't never be right no matter what when it's about service charge or tipping, it seems... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

What I am referring to was a note, stapled to the vinyl folder that the bill comes in, I truly am not worried about to tip or not tip - I ask as I want to do what's right, because as I said earlier at the end of the day it's peanuts, but I would be very curious if a French customer receives the same information on the inside of their bill folder. I have seen the double standard (stamp that says "service non compris" on an American Bill, but not a French Bill), it was a few years ago, I won't name names as things have changed, but we never went back!!

When I go to Dream, I receive, I believe the same bill as everybody else with the same info.. Contrary to what is being said here, there is a category of French customers who leave tips the same way as American do.... They are most of the time the true St Martiners, or long time residents, and majority of them are still using the US$ like in old time as main currency in their pocket, have Dutch side bank account with CC... The French that are not "leaving" tip are the newcomers on the island.. the one who left a system and brought it with them.... Remember, before hurricane Luis in 1995, St Martin was St Martin, and was very very little "France", beside it's culture and it's food. Everything changed after 1995.
Double standard may happen, I don't say it doesn't happen, but not in establishment like Dream (or I am blind and naive)...

Islandgem nailed it! Thanks!

I'll restate it differently but we're completely in agreement.

In a restaurant in France as well as on the French side of SXM, if you don't pay more than the amount of the bill, the waitstaff is still paid a living wage, and this, irrespective of what the bill says.

This is the law in France, period. Waiters, waitresses and bartenders MUST be paid living wages plus benefits by the employer, no ifs, ands or buts.

Now, some restaurants only pay the minimum wage which is around $10/hour and others pay more, sometimes much more, depending on the category of the establishment.

Again, don't forget that these employees also receive Social Security and healthcare benefits, paid partly by the employer too. That's also the law in France.

This being said, if you want to reward your waiter/waitress with a tip, because he/she has done a great job, that's perfectly fine, but consider it a bonus and that's how French waitstaff looks at it too.

I hope this helps.

Perfect both you and Iall!!! Not sure where tomorrow's adventures will take me, but not going to fret it, until Friday when I'm in St. Barth's!!!

It appears on the bill, that is shown by the OP, that it was not yet charged or run through the CC machine. So why couldn't he just increase the amount before its run through?

Also don't pay anything on the Dutch side restaurant bill that has a tax on it..asked to have it removed..

Or use it as part of the tip.

??... What are you talking about? are we mixing up everything here from one poster to another? I don't see anything on the OP picture about "no tip on CC" do you? I see "service non compris".... two different topics!
But trying to answer, (and I may misunderstood your point or question..) If a client want to increase the amount before the CC being run, I honestly don't see it feasible for the reason that what ever is being charge on the CC goes on the account of the business and is accountable as "business income" by the French Tax department. Business cannot be liable for Taxes and social charges and other government take away on tips to the staff.

I bring a bunch of cash, give it out to anyone I like and get the best service and attitude everywhere I go. I can't imagine what the employees pay for a place to live or groceries. If I can help them get along better than so be it. Same as here at home, if I think a server is doing a great job, why not help them out a little.

great attitude <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Please, even though you are (born) French, learn what you are talking about.... Your analyse, thus your comments are patronizing!
The smic (minimal wage is France) that you are talking about is, in 2015, for a contract of 39h per week 1610.57 euros GROSS per month, thus an approximate of 1263.33 euros net monthly, and for 35h (again.. those are allowed working hours only..) it is 1133.77 euros net...
So, plequerre, understanding like you said that it is the French law (the same as in France main land not taking in any account the difference of cost of living) do you thing someone could, or could you, live with 1133.77 euros a month in St Martin? Please don't use a rate exchange to "translate it" in US$, it wouldn't make any sense as again cost of living is not comparable with the US...
I personally think that this whole "the waiter receive a fix salary and benefit from his employer and the government, so no need to tip him or just a bit because everything is included" thing.... is, IMHO, all [censored]!
excuse my French!....
I am curious to see what will become the French side restaurant industry service in the next few years, when worker are not going to make a living out of it. One dying industry implicate people out of work, people out of work increase the risk and potentiality of crime.... cycle!.... I feel it already went down comparing to what it was ... 20 years ago? 15 years ago?

My point !!... Thank you ! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Please tone it down. I respect your position although I don't agree with it but I don't need your "learn what you're talking about" as an intro.

Have a nice day.

Consider this....tourism is the main employment on the island, not much manufacturing.

Would it kill anyone to tip?