TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin I'm afraid our island is changing

We are here for two weeks right now. I can definitely tell a difference. Went to Grand Case last night to enjoy harmony nights but it was canceled. Crowds are noticeably smaller in Grand Case. In addition we were in Phillipsburg yesterday for the day. In trying to find a parking spot we turned left from a parking lot that we were not supposed to. A police officer flagged me down and was incredibly rude. I was very polite as one of the people traveling with us was a retired police office from the USA. I felt like he was trying to start a fight with me. I truly did not see the sign we missed stating to no left turn (figured out later the reason we did not see sign was because the police van was parked right in front of the sign). When i asked the officer what the sign looked like so I would not make the same mistake again the officer told me "it looks like me" then proceeded to stare me down for 30 seconds without saying a word. He then made us back out in to heavy traffic and redo the turn except turning right this time. I am afraid the friendly island is changing. We have been coming here for 15 years but I now find myself reconsidering.

I am not sure a blanket statement is correct with what you experienced. It has been known that the Harmony Nights are not happening this year (or postponed), I think due to costs for security because of the current situation in Grand Case. Thankfully it seems the police presence has improved the situation and that is great.

Making a wrong turn and I guess getting "berated" by an police officer sucks (not sure why having a retired officer in the car matters) might be embarrassing and upsetting, but not sure these incidents equate to an unfriendly island.

Have you done anything these 2 weeks that you have enjoyed, food, beaches or shopping? If not, for sure reconsider any future trips.

I mentioned the retired PO for reference so that people would understand we knew how to handle the situation. We were very polite, as I do if pulled over in the states. I was simply stating that in the 15 years we have been visiting SXM this is the first time I have felt "unsafe". As far as a blanket statement that was not my intention. I was simply relating my experience. As far as the harmony nights being canceled. I was not aware. Everything I read said it was postponed, but it was supposed to be happening last night. That is why we made our reservations. I understand things change and I am not holding fault for them canceling it. I was simply stating our experience.

BTW, we did not notice any extra security. The road was never closed down. We did notice two Gendarmerie walking down the street, but we have always seen that. We did not feel unsafe, I was simply stating what we saw.

He is just venting two unpleasant parts of the journey he did not expect.

Having seen the situation on Jamaica and St Thomas deteriorate over the years, I am thinking the whole Caribbean is a little less than it was and St Maarten is just getting its share of that “little less than”.

No one wants unpleasantness on vacation.

Sadly, the island needs to get their $hit together.

Venting is probably correct. We will be back again next year. We love this place too much to give up so easily. It is just sad that in the 15 years we have been coming that the first time I have felt threatened or unsafe was from a police officer. Everyone in our vehicle (including the retired police officer) felt as if the officer was trying to egg me on and start a problem.

I have been going for 30+ years and many others on here much more than that. It is sad. I will be there in less than 2 weeks and some in my group may be making their last visit for several reasons.

Some of us have seen and been saddened by the changes we've seen over the years in SXM (40+). Change is often unwelcome to many seniors, of which we have become. Yes, it was "the friendly island" and we wanted that to remain forever but time marches on and hurricanes and infrastructure explosion outpace normal progress and we've got traffic gridlock and more bold crime to add to the situation. Also, the government corruption and predictable reluctance of the population to "do the right thing" and you've got the current SXM. Please don't label this the voice of doom, but a realistic warning to those that expect yesterday's rather than today's SXM.

Progress and development takes away “island charm”.

The island is still #1 destination in this hemisphere IMHO.
St John USVI would be #2.
SXM has a long way to go to fall into Jamaica territory.

Crime is my only worry.

I don’t know if I have ever seen a local police person on the French side. Just French Gendarmes usually standing next to a car or in a truck.
On the Dutch side, Ive seen them around the bridge responding to a wreck.

maybe they are great and stay out of sight. Or maybe they need a few more and stay on constant visible patrol.

Come to think of it, has anybody seen a French side Gendarme sobriety checkpoint lately?

I am saddened they have already dropped extra security & no longer closed the street after 6. Lots of violent acts while we were there. There was an incident Jan 28 th in the French news as well. Someone robbed at happy Bay this week.

Although I sympathize with you and would also have been infuriated by such behavior, it happens everywhere, also in the USA.

I was married to a woman who had serious psychiatric problems.

One evening on Kimsha beach, she tried to commit suicide by jumping into the sea. Some righteous bystander phone the cops because we were pinning her down to stop her doing it.

They turned up and immediately pulled their guns on us. Under Dutch law, to do so they have to be threatened

When they finally believed us, I asked them to take her to a secure psychiatrics place. They refused and left us there...

Many Dutch side cops are incompetent and corrupt. If they recover a stolen car, they use it for themselves before finally returning it to the owner.

jeepers--that is very concerning, dropping the extra security already. And a robbery at Happy Bay? Wow.

As a visitor who has made the trek to SXM every year for 49 years, and often multiple trips in each year, I, too, have seen a dramatic change from the island we early on came to love so completely. But sadly, that’s life.
As visitors we all want more and with so many of these upgrades the changes offer negative side effects as well. What once was a calm and sleepy little Caribbean island has been discovered by not only hose of great means but by those who might do us harm.
The only thing that hasn’t improved, IN MY HUMBLE AND PERSONAL OPINION, is the quality of the policing on BOTH sides of the island. Oh, and the corruption on the part of new governments has changed, sadly for the worse.
But that said, of all the Caribbean islands I’ve been blessed to visit, I think it will always be my personal favorite.

don't be swayed, (although you don't appeared to be), from posting your honest opinions on SXM just because the militant apologists come out as usual to downplay any negative experiences in SXM, be it crime related, service related, or whatever...it's as though they have a vested interest in white knighting for the island

Just sad.................

Totally agree with rural carrier!! I hope the Canadians that were attacked in January & beaten 8:30 pm (according to a different site) have been able to return home!

Regarding the robbery at Happy Bay: We go to Happy Bay often on our trips. We have found that Danny (who operates the beach bar) keeps his eyes open for troublemakers and thieves. Two years ago a guy stooped by our sunshade and tried to sell us some trinkets carrying a designer branded shopping bag. We told him we were not interested. Within minutes Danny appeared behind our sunshade and told us to watch out for that guy, "He is a bad dude". Danny is great guy who looks out for his customers. when you arrive, make friends with him and ask him if there is anybody sketchy that you should be aware of. Just some helpful advice.

Has anyone here heard any details of what supposedly happened at Happy Bay?

A man named Allen Streich said $250 stolen from his wallet. He said they were there 3 hours & moved their belongings & chairs to edge for shade.they went into water before leaving for maybe 4 minutes & came back & backpack was gone..found it on trail a little ways. Wallet there cash gone. He said lots of people around but no one noticed. He said almost like they were hiding in the woods. He said he let his guard down. I think it may have been their first trip. Definitely not a good first impression & only one chance for that! Sad for sure!

The first rule on this island is never leave valuables unattended or out of sight. Learned that the hard way leaving a backpack in a locked rental at Orient to go back to take a bathroom break before I left. Gone in 60 seconds. Always assume someone is watching especially on a beach as deserted as Happy Bay. The surprising thing is that the wallet was still there.

jeepers--thanks for the info. Yes, not a good introduction to the island, if so. And I guess they were lucky that the thief only took the cash.

They have returned home and are still recovering from the attack. They won't ever be returning to SXM.

Elizabeth--who are you referring to? Are you talking about the incident at Happy Bay?

I think Linda is refering to a recent incident in Grand Case

Carol, Elizabeth is referring to my question about the Canadian couple attacked in January & suffered very serious injuries. Long time visitors to st Martin. Very sad this happened!! I'm happy they made it back home at least.

jeepers--ok thanks.

We are here now for a charter with Moorings. We were having dinner last night in Marigot. It seemed very nice until we heard screams coming from the kitchen. Then two men walked out of the kitchen wearing hooded sweatshirts and masks. They were both waving guns and started stealing purses from the tables. They were gone in a minute, but it was pretty surreal. We stayed for dinner and it was very good. We figured they would not be back.

WTF?!?!?!

That was my reaction. We felt horrible for the restaurant staff as well. They were great. After the police left everyone just sort of went on with their dinner.

Looks like SXM is attempting to kill the Golden Goose. The island is not that big for criminals to hide. It is time for locals to make a stand on the uptick in crime or be prepared for the consequences. The police can't do it

Just thanking dear God that you and everyone else were ok🙏

I find that hard to believe that you stayed for dinner and restaurant went on with business as usual. Suprising it wasn't closed for investigation afterwards. What restaurant was it?

Jeez, louise.. OMG.

What restaurant was this?

Update: Last night (Friday) and tonight (Saturday)the extra security was back in Grand Case. Friday night they had security shut the road down. It was not the Gendarmerie, but a different police. Tonight there was a strong Gendarmerie (armed) presence walking the street. Great experience, no issues. Lots of people and we all felt very safe. It is my understanding the road shut down and extra security will be happening on Friday & Saturday

We did stay for dinner as did everyone else, as far as I could tell. Why leave at that point? They were not coming back. Three police officers showed up and spoke to a few people, but I would hardly call it an investigation. Believe it or not, Scuba. And I am not naming the restaurant because they were very nice, and I don't want this crime to negatively impact their business.

Probably would not affect their business if mentioned but definitely is going to affect the Marigot area as a whole without at least mentioning the general area in Marigot.

Sounds like same guys that got Mezzaluna. Getting ridiculous.

Having only once had a gun pointed at me at a hotel in Orlando I can say for sure I wouldn’t have stuck around or ate my dinner or ever returned. You are scared sh*tless. That would be our last trip to any island where this happened.

I also find it weird that after an armed robbery in a restaurant that ANYONE present would just sit back and enjory their meal. Sounds a bit casual and almost an expected event.

Maybe it'sj just me but wow....

I agree. I have been through an armed robbery in a pharmacy many years ago, typically the business is shut down for at least a brief time for investigation and questioning. My appetite would have disappeared.

What I find odd about this is the reaction of people who seem to think it just could not have happened. It did. I saw a full restaurant before the robbery and a full restaurant after the robbery. We had been traveling since 4 AM and there was no food on the boat. I was hungry and my wife was too. There did not seem much point in leaving after things had calmed down and the police were present. No doubt we were all a bit shocked and it definitely was not expected. I had a nice meal, and it looked like everybody else did too. Including the couple sitting next to us who had to get up from the table to speak to the police because her purse was stolen. They came back to their table, and the staff removed their meal and brought them a fresh meal. I thought that was nice.

mprevo--So, the bad guys know to stay out of Grand Case on Friday and Saturday, but the rest of the week is fair game?

If it were just a snatch-and-grab as the robbers ran from the kitchen and out the door, it’s possible that a lot of people really didn’t appreciate what was happening AND those that did did not want to leave for fear of re-encountering thieves with guns outside the restaurant. That said, in addition to the reasons other folks have pointed out for disbelieving this story, wouldn’t anyone who had her purse stolen want to quickly contact banks to report lost/stolen ATM and credit cards? 🤷‍♀️

This will be my last post on this topic. When the couple sitting next to us came back to the table, they were both on their cell phones. I don’t speak French, but presumably they were doing what the last poster suggested. My wife said that the young woman was crying and appeared to be speaking to her parents. I suppose the folks who had their pursessnatched could’ve left the restaurant and made the calls from outside in the street or back at their hotels, rather than call from the restaurant, but I don’t see the point in that. But, what I do know is that I have absolutely no reason to fabricate these events.

I don’t think anyone is saying it didn’t happen. As something similar happened at Mezzaluna in Nettle Bay and a German tourist got shot What’s puzzling is not sharing the restaurant especially since you say they handled it amazingly. I have been searching police reports and other sites and not knowing the location in Marigot doesnt help. Reason being once it is published hopefully we will know if it’s the same perpetrators. Just watch your boat as there have been many issues posted about yachts being boarded and robbed as well. This is off season stuff. Not normally during high season. Very sad all around.

" My wife said that the young woman was crying"
You didn't see her crying too when you said they came back talking on phone sitting next to you? OK. Just tell us the restaurant so all of Marigot isn't trashed.

Honestly, I don't really think the name of the restaurant is that important. They can't be blamed for being a victim.

I agree Carol.

As for Marigot, I just don't go there at night. Period. I've heard too many bad stories.

I can't blame folks for not wanting to share info on this site. Some of you folks are brutal.

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't get where anyone was questioning the legitimacy of the event of implying anything was fabricated. Others may have chosen to handle it differently is what I got out of the comments.

All things, both positive and negative, should be welcome to be reported.

See I would probably make a point of going to the establishment knowing how well they handled the situation. But whatever. Glad everyone was ok

Kim--overall, I think that more people would avoid the place.

My take is the comment by CalifSacto " in addition to the reasons other folks have pointed out for disbelieving this story" make the OP think we don't believe him.
We ate in marigot at least 7 times in 4 weeks only once in daytime. Lights everywhere very busy people & cars around. We ate once in Grand Case & I still can't believe they lessened police presence or none that quickly with crime on the rise. There was no parking in Grand Case when we did go but someone pulled out as we were going to leave.
Now this in marigot. We haven't felt unsafe there in years. I think knowing name of restaurant more people might eat there thinking the perps would move on to another spot.

jeepers--to me, I feel like the perps would rather have MORE potential victims. It's not like they think tourists will be any threat to them.

Even with the night of no "extra" security we felt safe. Other then our experience on the Dutch side everything has been great

According to Jeff Burger's "skymed " newsletter a starter pistol was used at the Nettle Bay incident and he alluded that the Marigot incident was at a waterside restaurant in the inner harbor by a single person. Hmmmmmm.🤔

Back to the title of the thread, about the island changing. I began to dream of living here within hours of first arriving by air 20 years ago. We visited many times in the next decade or so before arriving by sailboat from Canada in 2018. We lived on the boat for 5 years - even through COVID - most of it in Marigot Bay. Through all that time, the island had always had for me a magical quality. Now after 2 years living ashore on the Dutch side, fully legal, as a tax-paying resident, I have to say that for me, the magic is definitely gone. There's a list of perhaps 10 things that have soured me on the place, but crime and corruption are near the top of the list.

We're leaving at the end of high season for our next adventure. Can't say when we might return to visit.

Agree CaribLee…Geesh!

Ritchard,
Wow, would love to hear more. I doubt we would go as far as you, but have been contemplating long sailboat stays in Winter.

I totally agree. Danny is great and today my wife and I helped a couple recover their backpacks that had disappeared on Happy Bay beach while they were at Danny’s bar. When they came out from buying a drink they immediately noticed that their bags were not where they were supposed to be. They came and ask if we had seen anyone near their stuff. We didn’t as we had just arrived and were getting settled in. We started to search the area with them, and I remembered to follow the advice found in this forum and told the woman to speak to Danny to let him know what had just happened and that he could perhaps have a good idea as to who could be responsible. I then went into the trail behind where they had lost their stuff and came face to face with a couple of shady dudes, one who just walked away and the other asking me what I was looking for. The way he addressed me, felt odd. At the same moment, a few feet away my wife was looking in the bushes and noticed two backpacks hidden in what appeared like an hole and immediately notified the owners. Sure enough they were their backpacks, looking as if they were moved/tossed in a hidden location. The funny thing was when the two suspicious individuals walked behind Danny’s, Danny came out furiously yelling at the two men. Luckily the owners of the backpacks didn’t lose anything, their real concern was the car keys they had left in one backpack, the rest of the stuff was of no real value. Thank you for the advice and information shared in the thread!! Happy Bay is an amazing and awesome place.. leave your valuables home and maybe keep your cash and keys on you if you swim or walk around. This way you can enjoy and relax in this amazing place.

Good that it worked out but seems to be a recurring problem there lately.

WOW!!! That is hard to hear, leaving after ALL these years!!! Sorry we never ran into you all this time!! Good luck on your next big adventure!!!

Glad you helped out the couple. It's sad, but one must be careful everywhere.

Saint Martin continues to be the best, easiest place in the Eastern Caribbean to laze about on a sailboat - if you like it lively. There's a great yachtie community here, great services, chandleries, all the fun spots in the lagoon protected from weather. From here you can jump south or west or east to visit all kinds of different places.

However, the real golden age of cruising in the Caribbean seems to be over. All up and down the chain, there are more rules and restrictions, and new costs, such as mooring fees in lots of places there didn't used to be such. This had to happen eventually, it couldn't be a free-for-all forever, but some of the old-timers are pretty testy about it.

I wrote a cruiser's guide to Saint Martin if you'd be interested in reading it - PM me with your Email address.

Thank you.

I have read this entire thread several times now, with great interest and concern. I must admit that I was surprised to hear that, after a robbery that involved firearms, the restaurant stayed open and everyone, it seems, went back to their meals.

I have been robbed at gunpoint, while running a bank branch some years ago. The robber fired the gun into the ceiling over my head, mainly to get everyone's attention and to get the cash he wanted.

Of course, I closed the branch immediately, took stock of the situation, dealt with the police, etc. But the ongoing concern was for the staff. They were all very shaken up, some traumatized to a greater degree than others and counselling was needed for everyone.

When I read about the reaction following the restaurant hold-up, I wonder if today we have all become numbed, to a great extent, with regard to gun crimes, robbery, violence and crime in general. We hear about it every day in the news; it forms major content in TV shows and movies.

Perhaps the reaction from the restaurant staff and guests is just a sad reflection of the times we live in.

Closing statement was well said. 👏

Very well stated. After going through an armed robbery at a pharmacy years ago (no shots fired but 3 guns aimed at various people, including myself and one to the head of the pharmacist), I also don't understand the handling of the situation and agree with you 100%. I was also shot at one time while in a car, it is something you never forget.

And to add to this discussion, there was an update in the fall that carib tourism is losing market share to latin america. I forget her name but she was either a dutch govt or tourism industry rep.

As for hiding in the woods, this is old as time.... I caught a cute 5 yr old girl hiding at Pinel when they still had the tall bushes. We were in the alcove shading and she quietly snuck behind us in no time... she said she was lost. Be aware at all times. Wear your valuables around your neck. I make a big scene of placing keys, cards, phone in my waterproof neck wallet everytime. Even if i could have that done prior to arriving...jic.