TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums Southern Caribbean Husband gunned down by yacht robbers in St. Lucia

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541891/British-man-murdered-St-Lucia-holiday-in.html
Makes you wonder if the Customs person who wouldn't let them leave tipped off his buddies.

It sure seems like it.
What other reason would Customs have to hold them?

Looks like they tried to clear out in Soufriere, but the Customs guy didn't show up that day. So they went to Vieux Fort to try there.

Been to St Lucia many times but have to admit we never really felt comfortable there. You are probably safe in most of the tourist bits... Rodney Bay, Marigot Bay etc but once you get into Castries and even down near the Pitons, the atmosphere is different. The boat boys are very insistent and many of them drugged-up.

I doubt customs were involved in any conspiracy. Soufriere is not normally used by yachties to clear out. Very often these smaller customs offices are only manned by one person, at certain times of the day. If the staff get delayed, the office stays shut.

I think these people were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were new to the Caribbean and maybe weren't cautious enough about where they went. I'm pretty certain Vieux Fort is not recommended in the Doyle guides but I haven't got the book with me so can't confirm that. We certainly never went there despite it being the nearest anchorage to the international airport.

Yikes, we are scheduled to start our first charter down South at St. Vincent and stay in the Grenadines the whole charter, this kinda stuff gives me the willies, will be sailing with my Family.

Don't worry too much about the Grenadines Mark. The only violence I've ever seen, anywhere on my boat trips, around the entire world, was in CGB. I'm sure you remember the occasion!

There have been boardings in Rodney bay St Lucia and boardings in most of the bays in St Vincent.

I keep wondering if that professional captain's fist ever recovered after saildoggie punched it with his face... in Cane Garden Bay, of course. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Banana.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duel.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well, there was that incident in Bequia when the cruising couple (from the USA) were charged with killing the boatboy!

But actually, check this out for crime against cruisers in the Caribbean.

Yup, after the crew grabbed me by the shirt and held me for the coward to start punching!
That was certainly a fair fight...They tried for Walt (Twanger)earlier in the day while he was floating with on his back with a Red Stripe perched atop his storage container, they thought he was me, her verbally ripped them a really good one! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

We will just stay on our toes on the trip down South.

Yes, just be aware and don't moor/anchor in an area by yourself. Our last night in St. Lucia, we picked up a mooring on the west side, just North of the Pitons and we're going to spend the night, but I realized we'd be the only boat there and thought better of it and we moved back to the Pitons.

The only thing I've found annoying is the boat boys - some are fine, some are pretty pushy. And when checking back in to St. Lucia, the kids on the dock wanted money to "watch" the dinghy. I gave them a small tip figuring this would keep them from messing with it.

We have a second cat along on all legs and overnight stops, the Skipper sailed this area many times. We will still stick together ashore, no letting the young ladies roam free as we do in BVI's.

Sorry to say that most Islands you have to pull the dinghy motor at night! Not Mystt! But who wants to go somewhere where you have to pay mooring ball for three nights!

They are on cats so can haul and lock the complete dinghy. We always haul the dinghy up at night everywhere as it stops the thing hitting the hull if the wind drops.

Unfortunately, this perpetuates the problem.

not doing it and having the screw with the dinghy wasn't going to help us though. Next time I'd have someone drop us off or stay with it.

I used to say "It's a big dinghy; I think it can take care of itself."

And I locked it to the dock. Admittedly, it was a crappy RIB with a small outboard. YMMV.

Not having insurance for it, I wasn't going to take any chances. We still locked it.

Latest news from the BBC. As you can see he was not shot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cov...=PublicRSS20-sa

Curious, I don't understand how the story got put out that the husband was shot to begin with. But the press often gets things wrong..

Why can't you shoot back? How are you supposed to protect yourself? Isn't your moored boat considered your home?

anon--we are not going there. This is not going to be a 'right to bear arms' thread, or it will get shut down, now.

Reading all these comments and the news about this tragedy in St Lucia has caused me to rethink our up coming trip to the Island. On great advise from this group I had planned to sail up to Martinique for a few days and then head back down to St Lucia and The Pitons for the remainder of the trip. Now I'm thinking maybe we should just spend the whole trip cruising Martinique and forget about St Lucia or if we do cruise St Lucia just forget about anchoring or mooring and put the boat on the dock at the Marinas in Marigot and Rodney. If we decide to head south to the Pitons are there usually many boats moored between them? I'm thinking safety in numbers.

St Lucia has always been a troubled spot, with Castries area a no no for tourists even today. I dont know why anyone would ever go to Rodney Bay, its worse than Charlotte Amalie or Phillipsburg in terms of crowds, taxis, overbuilt, gettos, etc. It's ugly as well.
I have been to St. Lucia most recently in Sept/Oct on my way from Dominica to Grenada and back. Here are the places I think you can feel safe and have access to the nice inland sites there:
Marigot, for customs, then go south to Anse Cochon or my fav Les Canaries, where you can walk to some falls within 45 min. Soufriere for customs, but the immigration guy is hit or miss. If you don't do customs, just tell the SVD customs, in Chateaubelair or Bequia, and they won't cause a problem with you.
The Pitons are one of the great anchorages/mooring fields in the entire Caribbean and are not to be missed. The boat boys there were quite pleasant and helpful and not expensive. snorkeling is world class and i always am followed by a pod of dolphins when i head south...its pure magic. And you can climb either Piton of course!

There was a boarding in Tobago Cays last year and Union Island has its share of issues, but dont overnite in Clifton, go to Chatham and eat at Sun Beach Eat, tell Vannessa and Secki I sent you, i set up their ring toss game.
Bequia has had more problems than anywhere else, but is a nice place to visit nonetheless. Mayreau is my fav for its quirky bars--Last Bar Before the Jungle, Robert Righteous and de Youth, Dennis' Hideaway--and amazing setting at Salt Whistle Bay. Canouan is a waste unless you want to play golf, and Mustique is nice if you want to spend some $$$.

I found Martinique to be ok, but nothing special, Chaudiere has nice snorkeling, St. Anne is a cute town, but the people are more like Paris French, not Caribbean French like you find in Guadeloupe. A visit to Diamond Rock is a trip!

Hope this helps all of you, contact me if you need more help, i live in Dominica on my IS 37 Sanctuary and sail up and down the islands all year, eg I will be going up to St. Barths for the Bucket Regatta in late March/April.

Peace.

Thanks for the info Captain Mark.

What about the two resorts down near the Pitons...Hummingbird Resort and Harmony Beach Restaurant and Bar. Are you familiar with these and the services that Benny provides at Harmony?

Woa there Cptn Mark - Rodney Bay over built with crowds, ghettos, etc.??? What are you smokin We are in Rodney Bay right now and there are no crowds, no ghettos and nothing what-so-ever like Charlotte Amalie or Philipsburg (1 L is the correct spelling). Having been coming here since way back when there have been changes but nothing like you describe.

Martinique is fabulous with the best restaurants and grocery stores down island.

I could go on and on about these different perspectives it seems...

Wow.

Benny is top notch, there is one mooring in front of his place, its a nice place to get away from everyone else. There is a resort under Ladera don't know the name, but if its the hummingbird, its a bit holiday innish, though im sure it would be nice to some, i just like to be away from the cruise ship approach to vacationing.

Maria and Steve: I dont know what Rodney Bay you are in...no cruise ships? no boat yards? no traffic jams? no concrete office buildings? no best western style hotels? no large marinas? no power boat wakes? whatever you are smokin, i want some! you are telling me its a nice quiet tropical environment with palm trees and isolated beach bars?....NOT I guess your perspective of Les Canaries would be that its not what i describe also? Come argue with me in Dominica, i would like to see your description of this place vis a vis Rodney Bay, just sayin!

I was not going there. I hate political and religous arguements. The reality is that innocent people are being preyed upon by criminals while sailing or cruising the islands. A lifetime of planning for one's dream vacation can easily turn into a tragedy. How does a person protect their loved ones? Just a simple question? I don't have an agenda. I would love to cruise the islands one day after retirement...I am currently paid to operate a fire/rescue boat in the US.(in service 24hrs 365) Would like to hear from the experienced captain as to how one guards against losing ones life.

This type of discussion should not be any different than any other marine safety/life saving equipment discussion. IMHO

Captain Mark - whilst hearing what you say, I have to agree with Maria and Steve.

A bit of background - I know this area somewhat, having lived in St Vincent for about 20 years, and having lived just up the road from Rodney Bay, St Lucia, for about 10 years - I was last there in May when I sailed up from St Vincent. I ran a yacht charter company in St Lucia and have sailed in and out of Rodney Bay approximately 200 times.

I am not sure that I've ever seen a cruise ship in Rodney Bay. Windjammer vessels, that sort of thing, yes. Maybe even a 25-passenger something.

And I'm not sure I know where the "ghettoes" are in Rodney Bay. Many years ago, I did build a bar ("Love and Paradise") out of bamboo, just down the road from Scotty's in Gros Ilet - could this be the "ghetto" area you're talking of?

Yes, there is one boat yard. And a marina.

True, some of the office buildings are built out of concrete - I think there is currently a shortage of bamboo after the recent storms.

Traffic jams? True that some of the vehicles do move slowly, but I'm wondering if this could be because of the speed bumps and speed limit in Rodney Bay Village, or whether the typical 30 mph (in fact the legal speed limit) on the straight stretch of road outside Rodney Bay Marina could be construed as a "traffic jam" for one accustomed to 75 mph fast lanes - ?

Best Western-style hotels? Hmmm... yes, I suppose that the Rex St Lucian, Baywater Gardens or one of the others could look a bit Best Westerny when on one's 5th beer, having had to rest a long while to recover from the traffic jam.

Alright, point made.

I would agree that the marina can get pretty darned busy in high season and, compared with St Vincent, for example, it has the air of "big city". But it's an oasis of calm compared with St Thomas, St Maarten/St Martin, I absolutely don't agree with your comparison there.

Everything is relative. I also love places like Canaries and Anse La Raye. But I think that the majority of cruisers would also be pretty happy in a place like Rodney Bay

There is a casino in Rodney Bay, the whole place feels like dutch st martin. The Rodney Bay website says this is where people can enjoy the St. Lucia vibe...in a casino?
while i may stand corrected on the cruise ships, though you can see one in this photo: http://www.cruisetimetables.com/cruises-to-rodney-bay-st-lucia.html, its the same vibe as st thomas, with tourist curio shops and average diners. This is not the true caribbean, its the cruise ship mentality.
i just dont think that hotels parked next to each other surrounded by apt buildings and stores is what cruisers want to see. What i meant by ghettos is that, like any bustling overcrowded caribbean port, there are pockets of low income and not well kept areas (read: unsafe)
I was last there in 2008 and wont go back. Bring on Les Canaries (see my article in All at Sea, August 2011) Soufriere and the Pitons!
But back to the point of this thread, there is crime everywhere and to expect other is an oversight. My dad used to put tacks on deck at night so any invaders would scream an alert since most caribbean thiefs are barefoot!
Regarding firearms, if you carry them, you must give them to the local police for safekeeping never to get them back, but if you dont report them and they find them, you can lose your vessel. Seems like the reason you have them is to protect yourself while in port so this is so [censored] backwards you have to decide for yourself the risks involved.
You lock your doors at home when you go to bed, so do the same on the boat and you should be ok.
Seth and Maria and Steve, the first beer is on me if you visit my bar here in Prince Rupert Bay, The Peanut Farm Bar & Grill, see pics on Facebook page and like it!
Peace to all!

Captain Mark - who was your Dad? Joshua Slocum?! :-)

I will definitely come to your bar when I'm next in Dominica

I ended up settling in St Vincent because, like yourself I sense, I wanted to live somewhere that was more off-the-beaten track, and naturally beautiful with as little as possible "modernisation" or human intrusion.

I absolutely preferred Rodney Bay as it was 30 years ago, than as it is today - but that's a very personal thing: the truth is that 30 years ago you couldn't buy fresh milk or butter in Rodney Bay, there were 2 bars, two small hotels, and 3 restaurants. That was it. No marina, no boat yard, no mall, no traffic lights. A different pace of life.

When you live on mainland St Vincent, going to places like Barbados or Rodney Bay, St Lucia, really is like "going to the big city".

But at the end of the day, I think Rodney Bay gives most folks a very good balance - all the amenities and services, but without the fury of "the big city".

Regarding safety - the truth is that as tourism increases in poorer countries, so does crime. But the truth is also that crime remains pretty low in these parts and if you take "normal precautions" you'll be fine. I've cruised 3 of my own yachts here over the years and have never had any issue whatsoever (maybe the state of the vessels suggested, correctly, that I wasn't worth robbing...).

The only time i had an issue since 1979 was when Vinnie of Corsairs (he hates all his customers, he told me that he just wants their money and he said anyone who gives money to the JVDPS is "an idiot",) accused me of stealing his business on JVD since i did a couple of day charters there, so he stole my dinghy and cut my anchor bridle before I awoke and chased his emmissary off. Otherwise, i too have had no problems. But I don't park in one place very long, in 2010-2011 i sailed 150 out of 365 days while living aboard for example. For a "cruiser" that stays in one place for months at a time, i can't comment because that's not why i have a boat, i have a house for that! ;=P
Now i do day charters and run this tree top all local wood bar and grill. Hope to see you soon!
Peace.
And yes, Joshua was my dad...u got me on that one. My dad did throw loose nuts and bolts up on the mainsail during prestart sequences during regattas back in the day to spook the competition into thinking something was about to break...

Mark: I believe the cruise ships dock at Castries, not Rodney Bay. Re: your "ghetto" remark. I find that very offensive. The Caribbean has many problems historically and culturally. These problems are not going to be solved overnight. Mocking people in poverty does not help.

Apparently, you get offended very easily, and how you interpret this as a "mock" is on you. I was responding to Rodney Bay as a nice spot to anchor versus a busy congested tourist area. I also explained the word in a follow up post as meaning potentially unsafe areas. If you click on the link, you will see a cruise ship in Rodney Bay.
Believe what you want, but pictures don't lie, unless photoshop is involved <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />
RE: the poor in the Caribbean, come to Dominica and see what we are doing here to help out. What are you doing?
Peace.

Ref cruise ship - this may be semantics, but the photo is of one of the Windstar sailing vessels. I suppose it could be called a cruise ship, but it's actually a large yacht, not a "real" cruise ship like something from Carnival Cruises or similar.

the point is you have to deal with the masses not the local flavor i would think most cruisers prefer, though i may be wrong about that since so many camp in the Simpson Bay Lagoon for months....

Since this thread seems to have gone far afield from the original post, I think we will close it now, before captainmark insults anyone else.