TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums St. Maarten - St. Martin Scooter Driver Killed/Make That Three

I guess they will never learn.
ARTICLE

They ride without helmets here also.
I couldn't believe it.
i

Nope, they'll never learn. Almost a monthly reoccurring theme here. In fact, I can't think of one time when we visited when we didn't hear about some type of scooter or motorcycle accident. I've lost count of how many times they've blown by me on these two lanes roads and I'm not a slow driver.

I sold my ride a little over a year ago and had ridden most of my life but I NEVER got how or why they ride on the island like they do. Total insanity. SXMWendell and I were there many years ago and witnessed a car and scooter, it was not pretty, at the top of the hill. The car won.

Play stupid games ......win stupid prizes........

yeah, that was a knot in the gut experience. The guy hit the white van then hit the pavement. Then he got up , staggered a little and then fell to the pavement. And they seem to never learn.

Wendell

Well, thats an unpleasant picture i didnt need to see but maybe in this case publishing it might get young kid to drive better.

Many people, when they think of a scooter, think of something like Audrey Hepburn riding on a Vespa. That's not what we see on St Maarten. The Yamaha TMax in this incident may be classified as a scooter based on it's design, but performance-wise it's closer to a Harley-Davidson Street 500 than it is to a Vespa. Depending on the model, it may exceed some of the specs of a Harley Street 500.

You can't fix stupid, and oh so many of these 2-wheel riders ride stupid. Darwin gets a few of them, but only a few.

And another one in the same area.

ARTICLE 2ND DEATH ON A SCOOTER

I pity the first tourist who happens to unwittingly be involved in one of these deaths.

Agreed, it was not pleasant to see it happen in person either.

Correct, you can not fix stupid and that is proven over and over again.

IMHO, it is no so much the size of the ride but the lack of common sense and respect for the ride. Granted, more power is more potential for a lot of things but 2 wheels, little or no common sense and no regard for personal safety or safety of others is dangerous without regards to power. Having ridden a lot of cycles, both GoldWings (1800 CC/6 cyclinder/800 punds) down to 250cc bikes, the lighter the bike (without regard to power), the less respect of safety in many cases.

I was shocked the first time I had one of these bozos passing me on my left when I was in the left hand lane. I've never seen such stupid operation of motorbikes/cycles in all my life and I lived in the New York metropolitan area until I was 28 and now living in God's waiting room (Florida). Never thought I'd have to worry about some moron passing me on the left as I was making a left turn but that's what I had to get used to driving on SXM. Seems to me that the law enforcement has been lax at best and it would make sense that the French and Dutch sides get together and enforce the laws of the road. I, too, was worried about being a non resident and having a crash with one of the bikes as to how I would be treated. Mind you I have ridden motorcycles and until my back surgery a year and a half ago I had a Harley Davidson Touring bike. Maybe those that drive like that have a death wish and some of their wishes are granted.

Maybe what would help is stricter law enforcement on both the french and dutch sides of the island. I can't remember the last time I saw a police presence monitoring speed or issuing citations for speeding and/or reckless driving. Of course, there's little room on many of these roads to pull someone over for a traffic violation, but maybe this would be a good place to start. I keep thinking about that 'hair-pin' curve on the way to Orient Bay right by St. Joseph Church and some of the close calls I've seen there. Or, the curvy hills you deal with right before the turn onto the road for Orient Beach. Seems like if they are actively cracking down on things like vehicle registrations and proof of insurance maybe some resources could be used for this. Just a thought.

Poor Gendarme reaponded to both deaths in one day.

I was surprised to read on Facebook that it is illegal to ride without a helmet on either side. If so , the police/ gendarmes should be issuing tickets all the time to get the rider’s attention. Don’t know if it is illegal to pass on the left but it certainly should be imho.

https://www.meldonlaw.com/faqs/can-...-motorcycle-or-motor-scooter-in-florida/

You guys need to realize this is not an "island" thing. It's a motorcycle rider thing.
Stop passing judgement!
irina

Sorry but I find it hard to compare riding without a helmet and riding without a helmet while passing another vehicle on a two lane road while doing a wheelie.

Exactly.

While many states in the US allow riding without a helmet, with age and other restrictions, you do not see the passing on the left and other reckless antics often seen on the island. I often rode without a helmet (my choice as per OH law) locally but I always wore a helmet on a trip or if riding on the interstate but I NEVER rode like I often see on SXM. Virtually all laws that apply to vehicles apply to motorcycles in the states and are enforced as such. Such enforcement seems to be rather lax on the island to say the least.

I don't think it's a motorcycle rider thing and in if fact is an island thing.

As Ruralcarrier states there are certain states within the USA that allow for personal choice of wearing a helmet. Two the states that I have lived in don't require helmets, one being New Hampshire and the other Florida. When I lived in NH you would watch the motorcycle riders coming from or going into Massachusetts stop at the state line to remove or put on their helmet because it is required in Mass but not in NH. Now in Florida a rider over the age of 21 who has medical insurance in excess of $10,000 (Basically a health insurance policy) does not need to wear a helmet Having been an avid motorcycle rider until recently due to back surgery, I would never ride without a helmet.

As for the DRIVING PRACTICES, that's where the rub is. In every state it is illegal to pass, in any type of vehicle, on the left unless there is a broken line, white for multiple lanes in same direction and yellow for opposing. It is also illegal to pass on the left on the crest of a hill, a vehicle turning left. I have seen these morons pass on the left into oncoming traffic and they EXPECT the driver in the oncoming lane to yield to them.

As a retired law enforcement officer I can tell you that type of behavior was not tolerated and it also causes many unneeded deaths.

So, yes in my opinion, IT'S AN ISLAND THING.

Totally agree. Most riders that I have encountered on the island have the same poor/illegal riding practices. The helmet is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

MOTORCYCLE LAWS BY STATE

BTW, as of 2017 California was the only state that addressed "lane splitting" as legal. A few other states did not mention it so it would be up to the judgement of law enforcement.

Both you and deputydog hit the nail on the helmetless head.

I have no idea if "lane splitting" is actually legal or not in SXM but I do know the riding practices and disregard of common sense and overall safety contribute greatly to the number of accidents and resulting deaths or injury.

I was stunned, reading that link that Scubaman provided, to read that lane splitting is NOT illegal everywhere in the US, that in fact there is no specific law on it in several states in the US.

Me too. I bet it could easily fall under "reckless operation" in many cases.

I can't take credit for that link. Credit goes to ruralcarrier for providing it.

Oh, Sorry JD!!

We have seen the gendarmes with motorcycle & scooters pulled over at the roundabout at Hope Estate & the roundabout at the bottom of the hill heading in to Marigot at the Galisbay Road. Need to have more though. Have not seen any on the dutch side. Very tragic. Gus says that is most of the deaths on the island not diseases.

Love the link, thanks JD.

Having grown up all over the country with a dad who rode, and now we ride Harley's, I can say that I feel it isn't necessarily an "island thing". We are having major problems in DC and Maryland with unlicensed bikes, dirt bikes, trikes, scooters, etc.... They are operating en masse and swarming the Beltway. Holding up traffic, popping wheelies....lane splitting on the BW Parkway. I often want to open my door and take them down. It is insanity.

Unlicensed drivers/riders seem to a be problem in a lot of places and with both cars, motorcycles and other vehicles. Once you break the law once, what is the conern for doing as you described? NONE!

Our youngest son just completed his doctorate at UCal-San Francisco last fall, and when we visited him and his girlfriend they were telling us about a motorcycle accident that recently occurred near his lab in the Mission Bay area. In San Francisco, and I assume elsewhere in California, motorcycles and motor scooters can travel between lanes of traffic at will. When we have rented a car there in the past we have always looked out for that. But, this time a motorcycle was moving at a fast rate of speed between lanes of traffic that had stopped because on congestion. Well, someone opened the driver's side door without checking the side mirror and the bike struck the door at full speed. The motorcyclist went air-born for an unknown distance before striking the rear of a Fed Ex truck that was stopped. DOA. Never could understand why this is permitted there, and I highly doubt his was an isolated incident. Seen many close calls on SXM, but I hope I never have to witness something like that on future visits to either California or St. Maarten.

As stated in the motorcycle law link I posted, "lane splitting" is LEGAL in CA. Go figure that something like you described would happen. Common sense would tell me that in a very congested traffic situation that had come to a complete stop, you might on occasion find people opening a door, getting out of their vehicle, etc. Something the "lane splitting" rider should keep in mind.

I wonder if the intent of the legislature in Fruits and Nutsland, aka California, was to allow motorcyclists to be able to breeze through the typical freeway standstills, thereby enhancing more people to buy and use motorcycles which in turn would decrease on their traffic and pollution problem.

In Florida, the idea of lane splitting is illegal because the statute reads that only 1 vehicle may be in a lane of traffic at the same time unless it is 2 motorcycles riding together.

The inherit problem with lane splitting isn't the inadvertent movement of a vehicle but rather the intentional one. Someone sitting at a dead stop for 15 minutes and seeing the traffic backed up miles ahead may just be vindictive enough to suddenly move over and squeeze the bike or open their door. Now if the intent was, in fact to allow for motorcycles to be able to traverse during these traffic standstills, it becomes a problem when those that ride decide to do it at speed on the the freeway and wreak havoc amongst the motoring public.

At one point, Oregon was considering allowing motorcycles to drive on the middle strip as SXM does. Fortunately, that died a quick death.

Also frequent in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, and New York. They all have something in common.

Make that three, this one on the Dutch side. Scooter without a plate on it, driven by a young man from the French side. Thursday evening on Cole Bay Hill. I am not going to post a link to the story, as in typical Daily Herald fashion, there is a picture of the dead body. For those interested in gore, it's easy to find.

How many will it take before the authorities realize they need to start zero tolerance on traffic laws?

No, zero tolerance on SCOOTERS...

Years ago, one of our clients coined the term “suidecycle” for cycle drivers who drove recklessly without regard for their safety and others. Although coined more than 10 years ago, he believed this was a passing self-limiting situation as such drivers would eventually all be killed in accidents. It appears that more than 10 years is required to resolve issue. …Jim