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FRANKIE2 #187381 03/15/2019 04:44 AM
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Unforgiving and salty? Well, I've been called worse over the journey!

But to be clear, the official unforgiving and salty terminology (or UST for short) is 'sharp hook thing at the pointy end'.

Pointy end - bow
Sharp hook thing - anchor
Blunt end - stern
Anti-scratch balloons - fenders
Nautical pitchfork - thing for hooking hideous 'Boatyball'
String - stuff to attach boat to hideous 'Boatyball'

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warren460 #187388 03/15/2019 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by warren460
And when monopoly pricing pushes the price or boatyball to $100 per night, will you still feel the same way?


No I will be in Culebra on my anchor having cheap lobster at the Dinghy Dock.

Jay

fromaway3774 #187391 03/15/2019 07:23 AM
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💤💤💤

CaptainJay #187392 03/15/2019 07:24 AM
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I agree Jay, Culebra is still pretty much unspoiled

warren460 #187393 03/15/2019 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by warren460
And when monopoly pricing pushes the price or boatyball to $100 per night, will you still feel the same way?


It's all about supply and demand. Would I pay $100 for a boatyball at Norman? No, and that's why they don't operate there. Cooper? Yes, especially if it meant I could show up at 3:00pm instead of 11:00am. If I didn't want to pay the $100, then I would either skip the destination or arrive early enough to ensure a FCFS ball. The premium charge over a FCFS ball pays for the service (attendant, harbor manager) to enforce the reservation.

Unless I'm missing something, folks who don't want to use the system, and who are comfortable anchoring, shouldn't be impacted at all. So I don't understand the negative energy for a business that is trying to provide a service that I would gladly use on my next trip.

fromaway3774 #187394 03/15/2019 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fromaway3774
Originally Posted by warren460
And when monopoly pricing pushes the price or boatyball to $100 per night, will you still feel the same way?


It's all about supply and demand. Would I pay $100 for a boatyball at Norman? No, and that's why they don't operate there. Cooper? Yes, especially if it meant I could show up at 3:00pm instead of 11:00am. If I didn't want to pay the $100, then I would either skip the destination or arrive early enough to ensure a FCFS ball. The premium charge over a FCFS ball pays for the service (attendant, harbor manager) to enforce the reservation.

Unless I'm missing something, folks who don't want to use the system, and who are comfortable anchoring, shouldn't be impacted at all. So I don't understand the negative energy for a business that is trying to provide a service that I would gladly use on my next trip.


But it seems the one with the fastest internet connection wins, not the most money.


Colleen

[Linked Image]


Christo #187405 03/15/2019 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Christo
Unforgiving and salty? Well, I've been called worse over the journey!

But to be clear, the official unforgiving and salty terminology (or UST for short) is 'sharp hook thing at the pointy end'.

Pointy end - bow
Sharp hook thing - anchor
Blunt end - stern
Anti-scratch balloons - fenders
Nautical pitchfork - thing for hooking hideous 'Boatyball'
String - stuff to attach boat to hideous 'Boatyball'


Are they really that hideous haha? Maybe you just need to spend a little more time with them

fromaway3774 #187411 03/15/2019 11:16 AM
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Your quote:
Unless I'm missing something, folks who don't want to use the system, and who are comfortable anchoring, shouldn't be impacted at all. So I don't understand the negative energy for a business that is trying to provide a service that I would gladly use on my next trip.

Anchoring is very limited due to the fact the the anchorage is full of mooring balls.
Sure there’s going to be some negative energy towards Boatyball because they’re taking some of the first come first serve existing balls, and raising the prices.

FRANKIE2 #187462 03/15/2019 06:15 PM
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In time, I expect that some anchorages will have no fcfs balls


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
FRANKIE2 #187626 03/17/2019 10:10 AM
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Have sailed in several regions and will be back to the BVI this June. I signed up for Boaty Ball and have been monitoring availability. This winter reservations secured the 7am balls, but there have been balls available even in the afternoon. Cancellations maybe?

I fine departing early if needed to grab a first come ball. I am comfortable with my skills anchoring, but a ball provides a much better night sleep.

I plan to use Boaty Ball to secure a ball at Cooper and Anegada. Will allow for a casual departure. If at 7am a ball reservation isn't available, then no worries and go to Plan B or C.

It's the same number of boats using the same number of balls. To reserve or not is a personal choice.

As boating is a huge part of BVI tourism, it seems the real answer is to install more balls, and it's in the best interest of the BVI's to make it happen.

FRANKIE2 #187633 03/17/2019 11:06 AM
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This will probably be a unpopular opinion but the real answer is a limit on the number of charterboat permits granted. Places like Cooper really don’t have room for additional balls. Popular anchorages are simply maxed out at peak times.
G

FRANKIE2 #187635 03/17/2019 11:22 AM
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George, there is no limit to the number of cruise ship people or charter boats the BVI can accommodate, just ask the politicians and tourist board. If the Baths and White Bay get a little busy, just redirect folks to the mural on the ridge or the cultural stroll through Long Look.

FRANKIE2 #187640 03/17/2019 11:59 AM
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Maybe when Saba and Bitter End get back to operating, it will take some pressure off the balls at Cooper. Also Willy T back at Norman would bring boats back to the Bight. West End not really operating, Trellis and Marina seem to be not as popular and the slips at Scrub now used by DYC.

It seems from trip reports itineraries go like this: Cooper, JVD, Leverick, Anegada.

I didn't think I would ever consider a land based trip to BVI but it is now becoming something I am seriously considering.

FRANKIE2 #188527 03/24/2019 02:27 PM
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Reserved one on Cooper no problem this morning BUT Navigare's "Stella" was sitting on it at ~2:00 PM. We waited, circling for half an hour until they had the courtesy to come back from shore.

Thistle #188565 03/24/2019 07:19 PM
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Got a Boatyball at Leverick last week. Got in about 3:30. All of the moorings were full except for two boatyballs - one of them mine. A boat came in shortly after us and took the second ball. I suspected they were not the reservation - something about how they drove through the mooring field. About an hour later a boat came out from Leverick and checked the balls and names on the boats. Chased off the squatter. Atleast at Leverick on that particular evening it appears they were out enforcing the reservations. Good job!


Life's short - sail more!
FRANKIE2 #188570 03/24/2019 07:55 PM
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When Leverick is filled at 3:30pm the mooring ball situation has hit a tough level.

FRANKIE2 #188571 03/24/2019 07:55 PM
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When Leverick is filled at 3:30pm the mooring ball situation has hit a tough level.

FRANKIE2 #188574 03/24/2019 08:48 PM
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How late do you think you can arrive with a reservation without someone assuming you are not coming? I really don’t like the idea of having to get on my phone at 7:00 am to reserve a ball. If I were to do it, it would be because we planned to arrive pretty late (eg. after 5:30 pm).

FRANKIE2 #188591 03/25/2019 05:48 AM
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Steve74,

If YOU arrive at dark, and I (having reserved and paid for ball) arrive 15 minutes later, would you feel the need to vacate, or declare "Squatter's rights"?


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

steve74 #188592 03/25/2019 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by steve74
If I were to do it, it would be because we planned to arrive pretty late (eg. after 5:30 pm).


You do realize that most (all?) charter companies have it in your contract that you must be moored X hours before sunset.

Private boats can legally sail/move after dark and technically could be arriving at ball well after dark (Not a suggestion of a good plan, but....)


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Deepcut #188600 03/25/2019 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Deepcut
Originally Posted by steve74
If I were to do it, it would be because we planned to arrive pretty late (eg. after 5:30 pm).


You do realize that most (all?) charter companies have it in your contract that you must be moored X hours before sunset.

Private boats can legally sail/move after dark and technically could be arriving at ball well after dark (Not a suggestion of a good plan, but....)

If the ball is paid for no one has the right to use it and if someone does they should vacate.

FRANKIE2 #188619 03/25/2019 09:25 AM
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Many of us dive at night and arrive quite late to pick up a ball. That is the one advantage I see with Boatyball.
G

FRANKIE2 #188647 03/25/2019 01:46 PM
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If you arrive and find a squatter with nobody aboard. What about digging some lines out, chucking out some fenders and rafting alongside, then tie to the ball.

When they come back, they can then FOQ. You may find they return a little quicker...

I recognise that the balls are not supposed to have more than a single 60ft yacht on. But assuming it's not blowing old boots...and it's for a short period of time...and you remain aboard until the offender returns...plus what is the actual load limit on the balls? An ocean going yacht like a Hallberg Rassy 55 weighs roughly twice what a Jeanneau 54 does...so if it can safely take one of the former, it can certainly take two of the latter.

*this post doesn't change my 100% negative view on BB btw!

Last edited by Christo; 03/25/2019 01:48 PM.
Christo #188653 03/25/2019 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Christo
If you arrive and find a squatter with nobody aboard. What about digging some lines out, chucking out some fenders and rafting alongside, then tie to the ball.

When they come back, they can then FOQ. You may find they return a little quicker...

I recognise that the balls are not supposed to have more than a single 60ft yacht on. But assuming it's not blowing old boots...and it's for a short period of time...and you remain aboard until the offender returns...plus what is the actual load limit on the balls? An ocean going yacht like a Hallberg Rassy 55 weighs roughly twice what a Jeanneau 54 does...so if it can safely take one of the former, it can certainly take two of the latter.

*this post doesn't change my 100% negative view on BB btw!


Just curious why you’re so admantly against BoatyBall? Have you ever tried the service? And I believe the tonnage and rafting limits are set by the mooring company not BoatyBall. Most of the moorings there were designed to handle 60ft monohulls but in the current cruising scene where Cats around that size are the predominant charter boat in the BVI the swing is a little less generous than it used to be. Sure you could probably get away with rafting two monohulls, but trying that with catamarans is a terrible idea. At the least you’re breaking the rules, and at the worst you’re going to end up with two beached boats and no insurnace from the mooring company.

NCSailor #188660 03/25/2019 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NCSailor
When Leverick is filled at 3:30pm the mooring ball situation has hit a tough level.

We were there last Monday. As I indicated our arrival was about 3:30. After us I think there were probably 30 more boats that arrived and sniffed for a mooring. Really need the moorings working at Bitter End and Saba. I don't really understand why they have not been checked and made available. Thirty bucks per mooring seems like a pretty nice income stream for doing nothing more than collecting it.


Life's short - sail more!
FRANKIE2 #188665 03/25/2019 03:44 PM
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For all the reasons previously stated by myself and plenty of others...but here it is again.

The issue is not enough balls for current level of charter traffic...caused in no small part by the huge post-irma reduction of supply in places like North Sound. Boatyball doesnt solve the problem, it simply means that the early bird no longer gets the ball...the person with the better internet connection at 7am does. Plus of course all the agro that squatters are causing, which is frequently mentioned on here (doesnt happen with FCFS). If they were adding more balls then great, it would be helping to resolve the issue, I personally still wouldnt use it, but at least it wouldn't be negatively impacting me by taking away the FCFS moorings.

My previous comment was as a monohull sailor. I don't sail cats and my post didnt mention cats. It was quite specific on that point! If, as a monohull sailor, i'd booked and paid for a ball and someone was on it when I arrived, I would not motor around for hours while they finish their lunch/drinks, i'd raft, provided it was safe to do so. Then as skipper I would stay aboard until they return and FOQ. Meanwhile, my crew will be enjoying themselves snorkeling, exploring ashore etc, rather than having precious time wasted doing loops around the bay for hours waiting for some cretin who doesn't think the rules apply to him/her. Time in the BVI is too precious to be wasted.

As an aside, we have frequently seen cats rafted at Cooper and other places for most of the day until the fee collector comes around late afternoon and tells them to move. In every case these were idiots trying to save cash on the mooring fees.

FRANKIE2 #188668 03/25/2019 03:54 PM
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I have on many occasions watched as Cooper Island gladly allowed rafting as long as both boats pay the Mooring fee.
G

FRANKIE2 #188697 03/25/2019 06:19 PM
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I can understand why it might be the option of last resort upon late arrival. I've never done it, but admit, if my friends are on a mooring ball, and no balls available, and in calm conditions, I'd probably do it. I know I'd get a 'snake-eye' from the neighbors, and would certainly apologize for my predicament. I would not recommend it, just commenting if in a situation where my options were limited at the time. For sure, I'd take beers to the neighbors.


Noel Hall
"It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time."

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FRANKIE2 #188705 03/25/2019 07:59 PM
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Pretty sure the Moor Seacure slip we all sign contains a prohibition against rafting up...


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Christo #188707 03/25/2019 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Christo
Time in the BVI is too precious to be wasted.



CHRISTO: Exactly why I like BoatyBall. My crew can enjoy coffee and breakfast and enjoy BVI without having to rush to next destination to be assured of getting a ball.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Alec Atteberry #188713 03/26/2019 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Alec Atteberry
Originally Posted by Christo
If you arrive and find a squatter with nobody aboard. What about digging some lines out, chucking out some fenders and rafting alongside, then tie to the ball.

When they come back, they can then FOQ. You may find they return a little quicker...

I recognise that the balls are not supposed to have more than a single 60ft yacht on. But assuming it's not blowing old boots...and it's for a short period of time...and you remain aboard until the offender returns...plus what is the actual load limit on the balls? An ocean going yacht like a Hallberg Rassy 55 weighs roughly twice what a Jeanneau 54 does...so if it can safely take one of the former, it can certainly take two of the latter.

*this post doesn't change my 100% negative view on BB btw!


Just curious why you’re so admantly against BoatyBall? Have you ever tried the service? And I believe the tonnage and rafting limits are set by the mooring company not BoatyBall. Most of the moorings there were designed to handle 60ft monohulls but in the current cruising scene where Cats around that size are the predominant charter boat in the BVI the swing is a little less generous than it used to be. Sure you could probably get away with rafting two monohulls, but trying that with catamarans is a terrible idea. At the least you’re breaking the rules, and at the worst you’re going to end up with two beached boats and no insurnace from the mooring company.



Alec-

Why dont you improve your app? As an example instead of clicking on a specific mooring ball why dont you let users pick a mooring site and then you can assign a ball?

bailau #188715 03/26/2019 07:09 AM
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That is not necessarily an improvement.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
FRANKIE2 #188722 03/26/2019 07:55 AM
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Warren-

Absent being able to choose your own ball I would be curious as to why you dont think that would be improvement...

bailau #188730 03/26/2019 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bailau
Warren-

Absent being able to choose your own ball I would be curious as to why you dont think that would be improvement...


That’s more or less how the app functions already. Once you pick the mooring site you’re able to see which moorings are available there and select which one you want to reserve.

Alec Atteberry #188735 03/26/2019 09:28 AM
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I’ve been locked out of a ball as someone else clicked on the same one I did. It was available when I clicked it. And then by the time you pick another ball they are all gone. An option like “give me any free ball” makes a lot of sense.


Dennis
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FRANKIE2 #188745 03/26/2019 10:41 AM
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I used Boatyball last week for one night at Leverick. While it worked for me it was a bit of a struggle as I lost my internet connection at 7:00 and by the time I got it back two minutes later there was one mooring still available which I snagged. In reality I think this process is a bit of a "lottery" to get a mooring. That being the case I wonder if that shouldn't just be embraced which would make the whole process easier. Here is what I think I would do if I ran the zoo:
* Don't allow user's to pick individual moorings. Only which bay.
* Allow users to submit a reservation request at any time. Even days ahead of time.
* 9pm the night before: If there are fewer signed up for a bay than available moorings just assign them. If there are more signed up than available then randomly select the "winners". Notify all of the outcome.
* If there are more moorings available after the lottery at 9pm the previous evening then of course people can keep signing up during the day until it's full (i.e., how it work now).

Advantages to this are:
* It's already random. Who has the fastest finger and the fastest internet is what we have now. And that's going to depend on where you are located and how fast your finger can twitch. So no real downside in my opinion to embrace the "lottery".
* You would know at 9:00 the previous evening if you have a reservation or not. And you can then make some plans with your crew what you might do the next day instead of the next morning.
* No need to be up and running at 7:00 in the morning


Life's short - sail more!
dcareri #188746 03/26/2019 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dcareri
I’ve been locked out of a ball as someone else clicked on the same one I did. It was available when I clicked it. And then by the time you pick another ball they are all gone. An option like “give me any free ball” makes a lot of sense.


same issue exactly...

FRANKIE2 #188750 03/26/2019 11:00 AM
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agrimsrud - I like your ideas. All make a lot of sense.

Is there a potential issue though with not being able to select a specific ball in terms of depth? Anegada for example...not all balls have enough depth for the larger monohulls...

Christo #188753 03/26/2019 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Christo
...not all balls have enough depth for the larger monohulls...


I inquired to BoatyBall about this depth thing a couple of months ago.

To Ty at BoatyBall
On Jan 17, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Chuck wrote:
Hello,
Another suggestion... In areas where depth might be an issue (Anegada). You might list the MLW Mean Low Water depth when you select a ball to reserve.

From Ty at BoatyBall

Chuck,
That is a great idea and would be really helpful at Anegada. We will look into ways that we could potentially gather the information and make it available. Thanks, Ty




Last edited by cwoody; 03/26/2019 11:11 AM.

Chuck W.

cwoody #188761 03/26/2019 11:56 AM
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Some ball might be favoured for depth (anegada) or shelter from wind etc.

If I was to use boatyball I would like the ability to choose from available balls.

There may be other reasons too. Swing room is not necessarily the same for all balls. There is at least 1 ball at Cooper to close to fcfs balls.

In my view, the problem is not enough mooring balls. The problem was never the need for a reservation system that merely introduces new problems



Last edited by warren460; 03/26/2019 11:59 AM.

Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
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