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Re: Someone died?
[Re: ruralcarrier]
#135589
07/13/2017 06:43 PM
07/13/2017 06:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 721 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
Traveler
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Posts: 721
South Coast of MA
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ruralcarrier said: Protective padding? Perhaps but how about people use common sense and don't knowingly do stupid and unsafe things. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: shieneehead]
#135590
07/13/2017 06:46 PM
07/13/2017 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 721 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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Posts: 721
South Coast of MA
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shieneehead said: It is sad that it happened but standing at the fence is one of the most asinine things I've seen. I've never understood the motivation to do it. It doesn't look enjoyable. The internet is loaded with videos of people getting hurt and sandblasted. It's like playing Russian roulette. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> With all of the cylinders loaded. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast
[Re: SXMDeepBleu]
#135591
07/13/2017 06:57 PM
07/13/2017 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 721 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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Posts: 721
South Coast of MA
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SXMDeepBleu said: Google: "Airport blast fence", intended for this very thing. It is a money and publicity generating anomaly for the island, hence the new amount of tours from cruise port to the site. No way will it ever be corrected. What's to correct??? These people aren't forced....nor is it an accident. These folks make a choice to do something stupid........so be it.
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Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#135592
07/13/2017 06:58 PM
07/13/2017 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,250
sxmsandbum
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,250
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Carol_Hill said: So sad for this lady's family that this happened. Even if a person doesn't try to 'ride the fence', we see REALLY stupid behavior there all the time. People literally stand in the road, walk in the road, walk on the concrete barriers, right in front of cars going past, and they are usually half lit. It makes me very nervous to drive down through there when there are a lot of people there, afraid that someone will fall right in front of our car and we will run them down. People seem to have no good sense about them. I am with you on this one Carol I hate driving that area anymore and the people look at you like you are in their way!
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Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast
[Re: SXMBND]
#135593
07/13/2017 07:39 PM
07/13/2017 07:39 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 39
SXMDeepBleu
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Posts: 39
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SXMBND said:SXMDeepBleu said: Google: "Airport blast fence", intended for this very thing. It is a money and publicity generating anomaly for the island, hence the new amount of tours from cruise port to the site. No way will it ever be corrected. What's to correct??? These people aren't forced....nor is it an accident. These folks make a choice to do something stupid........so be it. To correct would be an issue to safety due to it being close to the roadside as they do all over the world, for vehicles that need to pass let alone the ignorant that cling to the fence regardless of any sign. It's really a Govt. liability too when it comes to the concerns of tourism safety. The day that there is an engine fire or failure upon takeoff although rare but sudden, and raw fuel or fire or shrapnel shoots out and makes its way to a whole beach full of people then maybe.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: SXMBND]
#135594
07/13/2017 08:22 PM
07/13/2017 08:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,763 Ohio
ruralcarrier
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Posts: 17,763
Ohio
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I guess the signs and someone just getting killed had no impact. Updated Article
J.D.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: BEERMAN]
#135597
07/14/2017 05:40 AM
07/14/2017 05:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,763 Ohio
ruralcarrier
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Posts: 17,763
Ohio
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I am guessing the height of the curb is to prevent traffic from crossing into the other lane and also to stop some of the sand from coming onto the road. Look at how people drive through the area, stop and look, etc. IF it were not for the height of the curbs, there would be numerous cases of vehicles hitting other vehicles. The curbs are there for a reason and you pretty much stated it. How about the PEDESTRIANS just stay off the road? Same picture but another update HERE.
J.D.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: sasasal]
#135599
07/14/2017 08:09 AM
07/14/2017 08:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,763 Ohio
ruralcarrier
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,763
Ohio
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The beach was basically unknown until the advent of the internet and then social media. With YouTube videos the location has become wildly popular. Where else in the would can you be that close to a live runway with big jets coming and going? Media thrives on stuff like this.
No idea why someone of any age would do what many do but throw in a little alcohol and age and common sense are no longer relevant.
J.D.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: ruralcarrier]
#135600
07/14/2017 08:49 AM
07/14/2017 08:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 219 Wisconsin
wabid
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 219
Wisconsin
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The whole situation defies logic and this outcome is a horrific result. I visited the sunset bar when we first visited the island years ago. (Been there, done that moment) It was a slow day, however there were a handful of people who were holding onto the fence. My jaw dropped on the dangers. Exhaust, FOD on the runway, and the risk of being blown across a road. We can beat this one to death, but its is dangerous on so many levels. Because it was a slow day, I started chatting up with one of SBB managers. I asked if anyone had been killed and he said no..."a couple broken bones..but no deaths... He also just rolled his eyes at the idiots riding the fence. I was shocked no one had been killed over the years...
Clearly this activity needs to be discouraged. Instead of building more barriers and infrastructure that may or may not work, how about just making the fence off limits and anyone caught touching it or is caught loitering on the road subject to a hefty fine? Say $500. I am just spitballing here but its seems if you actual create a hard consequence for a potentially dumb action you will discourage more, not all, from doing something stupid.
Last edited by wabid; 07/14/2017 08:51 AM.
Never walk onto a job site with empty hands. - Source Unknown
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: wabid]
#135604
07/14/2017 09:33 AM
07/14/2017 09:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,601 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Central Florida!
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The planes are a HUGE tourist attraction and fining people would just give the island more bad publicity. And St. Maarten cops have a whole lot of things they need to do to address crime and do not have the money or resources to devote to such an operation. I think that a jet blast wall would make landing more difficult and dangerous for the airplanes, and that is obviously not something that would be a good thing. I suppose that one could make it so that there is no space to stand beside the road. That would at least be a start, I guess. Although of course more people would then just walk in the road, which is already very dangerous. I see many people, especially locals, walk by the end of the runway there all the time. At least part of the reason is because they don't want to walk in the sand on the other side. What would be nice is if there were a paved walkway on the side of the road, so that people could walk over there, out of the road but not on the sand. However, since the sand comes and goes so much there, not sure how practical that would be either. It's a conundrum. I have no more knowledge than anyone here, but I suspect the only thing they could do is to try to eliminate any space between the fence and the road in the hopes of preventing people from walking or standing there. I don't know how you do that though.
Carol Hill
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#135607
07/14/2017 11:17 AM
07/14/2017 11:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 219 Wisconsin
wabid
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Posts: 219
Wisconsin
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Carol_Hill said: The planes are a HUGE tourist attraction and fining people would just give the island more bad publicity. And St. Maarten cops have a whole lot of things they need to do to address crime and do not have the money or resources to devote to such an operation. I think that a jet blast wall would make landing more difficult and dangerous for the airplanes, and that is obviously not something that would be a good thing. I suppose that one could make it so that there is no space to stand beside the road. That would at least be a start, I guess. Although of course more people would then just walk in the road, which is already very dangerous. I see many people, especially locals, walk by the end of the runway there all the time. At least part of the reason is because they don't want to walk in the sand on the other side. What would be nice is if there were a paved walkway on the side of the road, so that people could walk over there, out of the road but not on the sand. However, since the sand comes and goes so much there, not sure how practical that would be either. It's a conundrum. I have no more knowledge than anyone here, but I suspect the only thing they could do is to try to eliminate any space between the fence and the road in the hopes of preventing people from walking or standing there. I don't know how you do that though. I agree. You can't eliminate the attraction, perhaps make it a more positive experience? ("Stand here, here and here, don't ever stand here") The Fine is just an idea, and perhaps completely unenforceable, given other priorities. Unfortunately its easy for me to witness the potential danger and sit back at my keyboard come up with arm chair solutions. Its sad, tragic, and thoroughly avoidable. I hope the authorities and the islands tourism leaders find a way to solve the problem.
Never walk onto a job site with empty hands. - Source Unknown
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: Speebs]
#135610
07/14/2017 12:05 PM
07/14/2017 12:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 516
Rbailey
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Posts: 516
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Speebs said: Toxic compounds formed by Oxidation or burning of benzene in jet engine? Benzene + oxygen goes to carbon dioxide and water vapor. C6H6 + (15/2)O2 ----> 6CO2 + 3H2O Never realized that carbon dioxide and water vapor were toxic chemicals. From an environmental chemist. 1. Jet fuel is not benzene. 2. Fuel combustion in an engine is not complete - you don't get to equilibrium. Various decomposition intermediates and side products are produced. From another chemist.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: SXMBND]
#135612
07/14/2017 02:04 PM
07/14/2017 02:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,105 Massachusetts
boucharda
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,105
Massachusetts
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You can't legislate common sense. Correct...even though MANY attempts are made to try and protect people from themselves
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: Rbailey]
#135614
07/14/2017 06:56 PM
07/14/2017 06:56 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 39
SXMDeepBleu
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Rbailey said:Speebs said: Toxic compounds formed by Oxidation or burning of benzene in jet engine? Benzene + oxygen goes to carbon dioxide and water vapor. C6H6 + (15/2)O2 ----> 6CO2 + 3H2O Never realized that carbon dioxide and water vapor were toxic chemicals. From an environmental chemist. 1. Jet fuel is not benzene. 2. Fuel combustion in an engine is not complete - you don't get to equilibrium. Various decomposition intermediates and side products are produced. From another chemist. This is fine, correct me if you must. Give yourself a star. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: SXMDeepBleu]
#135615
07/14/2017 09:27 PM
07/14/2017 09:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,562 Long Island, NY
RICKnGRACE_LI_NY
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Traveler
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Long Island, NY
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First trip to SXM 1993. Age 41. Had to try it. Not from the fence. From the beach but directly behind jet blast. Couple seconds in my thoughts to myself were "What an effin moronic thing to do"
Sadly people ignore signs. They have seen the video and have a WTF moment and give it a try. This incident, sadly, had a tragic ending. Will it stop anyone? My guess is no.
It's part of the "GreaterFool" theory. For every incident, there is a greater fool who thinks that nothing bad can happen to them.
Rick and Grace
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: RICKnGRACE_LI_NY]
#135616
07/15/2017 08:04 AM
07/15/2017 08:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,601 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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I have never done it, never had any interest in doing it. A friend of mine did it a couple of years ago, from the beach, and got blown into the water. No injuries, but I don't think she wanted to do it again....
Carol Hill
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: DavidinChelseaMA]
#135619
07/15/2017 09:18 AM
07/15/2017 09:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,601 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Sorry, I think that's a ridiculous amount. The current signs do not even say it is ILLEGAL to stand there, as I'm not at all certain that it is. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law that says that it is illegal to stand there. The problem, as I said, is that particularly many local people walk along there, to get from Beacon Hill to Maho, as this is the only way to get there. The law would have to be carefully drafted to allow people to walk through there, just not stand there, and I think that would be a bit dicey in drafting.
Carol Hill
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#135621
07/15/2017 10:54 AM
07/15/2017 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 721 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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South Coast of MA
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<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> Carol_Hill said: Sorry, I think that's a ridiculous amount. The current signs do not even say it is ILLEGAL to stand there, as I'm not at all certain that it is. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law that says that it is illegal to stand there. The problem, as I said, is that particularly many local people walk along there, to get from Beacon Hill to Maho, as this is the only way to get there. The law would have to be carefully drafted to allow people to walk through there, just not stand there, and I think that would be a bit dicey in drafting.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: o2bnsxm]
#135622
07/15/2017 10:56 AM
07/15/2017 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 721 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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South Coast of MA
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o2bnsxm said: A sign saying : EXTREME DANGER AREA !! DO NOT STAND HERE WHEN PLANES ARE ARRIVING OR LEAVING !! DEATH COULD RESULT !!
The violators will do whatever they wish anyway. Nothing more to do about it. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: o2bnsxm]
#135624
07/15/2017 11:57 AM
07/15/2017 11:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 334 Pittsburgh, PA
jerber160
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o2bnsxm said: A sign saying : EXTREME DANGER AREA !! DO NOT STAND HERE WHEN PLANES ARE ARRIVING OR LEAVING !! DEATH COULD RESULT !!
The violators will do whatever they wish anyway. Nothing more to do about it. I've been thinking about the 'get blown' t-shirts and signs at Sunset that seems to encourage this. I'm thinking about the people who think 57 years old is old. I'm thinking this is really sad but not unexpected and it's remarkable it hasn't happened before.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#135626
07/16/2017 07:06 AM
07/16/2017 07:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 402
DavidinChelseaMA
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Carol_Hill said: Sorry, I think that's a ridiculous amount. The current signs do not even say it is ILLEGAL to stand there, as I'm not at all certain that it is. Perhaps the legislature could pass a law that says that it is illegal to stand there. The problem, as I said, is that particularly many local people walk along there, to get from Beacon Hill to Maho, as this is the only way to get there. The law would have to be carefully drafted to allow people to walk through there, just not stand there, and I think that would be a bit dicey in drafting. I figured a high enough amount to deter a drunk tourist. But I see what you're saying about walking past, in that many people don't actually cling to the fence during take-off, but put themselves in line with the engine thrust. And who's to say who merely unknowingly walks past at the very moment the plane takes off versus who intentionally stops to participate in this foolish activity. It's a tricky issue, but maybe a slightly higher, solid wall, just at the end of the runway, would be better to prevent this from happening.
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Re: Someone died?
[Re: DavidinChelseaMA]
#135627
07/16/2017 08:43 AM
07/16/2017 08:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,601 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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As I said before in this thread, I think that a solid wall would be more dangerous for the planes landing, especially if a plane landed really short, as Air France did that one time.
Carol Hill
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